Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Welcome to Chasing Life. You know, some things occurred to me recently. We've spent a lot of time talking about kids and their screen time. I have three girls. It is a big topic of conversation in my house.
Chapter 2: Why should we be concerned about parents' screen time?
But lately, I've been noticing something a little different in my own life. My parents, older relatives, and even some of my own friends, they are spending a lot of time on their phones. They're watching videos, they're scrolling, they're going down these rabbit holes.
We've been really focused on reducing screen time for kids, but maybe are we forgetting that it's really not good for any of us, including older adults, including my own parents. Why is this happening? What does it mean for their lives? What does it mean for their brains as they age?
When does it go from a legitimate way to stay connected, which I think we all agree can be a good thing, when does it go from that to something we should actually be concerned about? And if this is what we're seeing now, what does it mean for younger generations who've basically grown up with screens? They've never known a life without screens. These are big questions.
They're important questions. So today, I'm going to be talking with board-certified psychiatrist Dr. Sue Varma. She's going to help us understand what is driving this, what to look for if you're starting to worry about someone else's screen usage in your own life, and I think most importantly, what you can actually do about it, how to have that really important conversation.
I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent, and this is Chasing Life. I'm older than you are, but I think we both grew up at a time when there weren't phones, obviously. There certainly wasn't social media. So the context for this is very different, I think, for people of our generation.
Yes.
And I think when you introduce a new technology, sometimes it can be very transformative and transformative in good ways, but you don't always anticipate some of the potential perils of this. So you try and control as much as you can.
Part of it is because the television is also on versus in younger Gen Z and younger millennials, they're just using the phones instead of television time. But their screen time on their phones is still high. It's like seven or eight hours a day.
I feel like if I were to tell my parents, I feel like if I were to share those sorts of numbers with them, first, they wouldn't believe it. They would deny it. But they certainly would be shocked or surprised. What do you see in your own patients or your own group of friends?
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Chapter 3: What are the risks of excessive screen time for older adults?
And he keeps in connection with them on WhatsApp, which is great. We find that about 60% of the time, the phone usage is positive when it has to do with photo sharing, video sharing. and keeping in contact with people. The problems where I see is that the excessive phone use, my dad is constantly tuned into the weather channel and he is always alerting me.
And this is something that you see, they call it the informed guardian, where the person feels like I wanna be useful, I wanna be relevant, I need to stay on top of the news, right? So this is where it can get excessive, where I love the fact that he's clued in and plugged in what's happening in the world,
But then I'm also concerned where do you really need to know everything happening everywhere where you really don't have any control over it? Or even the weather, you know, oh my God, you know, it's going to be 90 degrees or, you know, you could be at risk for a heat stroke. So I appreciate it, but I understand it as a need for agency in their own lives.
When we see that over half of adults over 65 are living with multiple chronic diseases, many of them are on four or five different medications, they're living alone. Sometimes the screen is the only voice they hear all day. So it's understandable to me, but I also am concerned because what this does is it crowds out opportunity for real-life connection, for exercise, for time in nature.
And it has very clear physical symptoms, physical symptoms of withdrawal. A lot of times if you tell the elder adults, like I see this with my in-laws, for example, they're on their screens and devices all day long. And to the point where if you ask them, come hang out, they'll say, no, no, I'm good. I've got a show that I have to watch.
And I'm like, we want to take you out to dinner, but you've got a show that you're like married to almost.
Yeah.
But what is the fundamental problem then? Is it what those screens are doing to them? Is it what they're not doing instead? And I will say, like, just listening to your father's story, your father's watching the Weather Channel all the time. Hey, you know, Sue, it's going to be 90 degrees where you are. Make sure you pack your water, whatever it might be, right?
It's some of the same character traits in a world of new technology, it sounds like.
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Chapter 4: How can families identify warning signs of problematic screen use?
And yes, we could say it's a way that they share and keep in touch with family. And that might be the only connection, like to their grandkids, for example, right? Like as younger people and younger generations have moved to better jobs. They're less connected. A lot of times they're estranged from family members. That's a big problem that we have.
A lot of these older folks are like, I don't even talk to my kids anymore. And so the only way for me to stay connected is through Facebook. But then the problem is they become addicted to the likes and may go down dark rabbit holes of communities.
I think that that is, to me, a fundamental sort of a foundational concern is that, you know, my parents are I think they're vulnerable in this regard. I think people prey on them using social media. They try and sell them products, you know, all that sort of stuff.
This older population is so vulnerable to scams. They're not aware that there is an algorithm that has its own agenda that wants to make money. And, you know, I have patients who will tell me that one patient in particular was like his mother who is not, you know, doing well financially. She's retired. She almost lost a million dollars to this one scam that kept repeating itself.
It was like one of those Saudi prince leave money or somebody in Nigeria, like leave money in a locker where a lot of people get hooked into these romantic schemes where like they might be they're older and they're lonely and maybe they're widowed or divorced or single and they're getting catfished or pictures being sent to them.
I will tell you, you know, there was a few times that it really struck me and it would be when I'd be in the middle of a, you know, what I would consider a deep conversation with my mom, for example, and her phone would ring. And it was like, oh, my God, I get and she didn't know who it was, but clearly she was going to interrupt this time, which we don't get a lot of.
with me to answer a call from someone she didn't even know what it was. And it just sort of struck me at that point. But to be charitable at that time, I realized that she grew up in a world where being able to talk on the phone was actually quite a luxury. But the second time I noticed it was we have a pretty strict policy in our house to not have phones at the dinner table.
I have three girls, you know, who are in their late teens, early 20s now, and that's just the way it is. And they're good with it. But you know who wasn't good about it? My parents. So we're sitting there having a dinner with my kids and my parents. We're the sandwich generation. And my mom is sitting there staring at her phone in the middle of dinner, you know, with...
And again, I want to have the most charitable sort of take on this. Yes. Like, wow, a phone didn't even exist. The idea of a portable phone, the idea she could hold it in her hand, the idea she could have this instant communication. She almost feels like she needs to to use it as as much as possible. I don't know. I mean, how do you think about it?
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Chapter 5: What strategies can help parents reduce their screen time?
What am I missing out? So with younger adults, there's this concept of FOMO, fear of missing out. But with older adults, it's a fear of being isolated. They call it FOBI, F-O-B-I. And you might be like, that's ridiculous. My mom is not isolated right now. She's on the dinner table with her family for a rare special occasion. But I feel like this phone to them is their lifeline.
It's their sense of relevance. It's their sense of connection. And it's like, what's happening in India? What's happening to my relatives? What's happening wherever? And I think that as we get older, we start to become scared that we're no longer relevant. that we're not in control, that bad things will happen to us. I feel like in some cases it's the loneliness.
And then even when you're trying to draw them out of their shell and say, but I'm right here, you know, they're like, yeah, but you're here now, but you're not going to be here tomorrow. My phone is always going to be here, my phone and the world. It's a world that they've entered.
And I can also, I think, in some ways relate to that because I feel like I had dinner with a psychiatrist friend and she has no digital footprint, like none. You can't find her on LinkedIn. There's no website. And she's like, I don't understand this world that you're a part of. What is Instagram? And trying to explain how compelling it is that you get sucked in.
You have a persona online that you have to maintain. She's like, I don't get it. This is crazy.
What goes through your mind? Do you think that that person is missing out or are you jealous of them in a way?
Yeah, you know, I would say a combination of both. Like, I was recently in Japan with my family for two weeks. And a few days in, I decided, you know, I'm going to be off of social media. And it was the longest break that I allowed myself to not post, to not engage. And it was the best two weeks of my life.
So you sort of did a digital detox, sounds like, of your own in Japan.
Yes.
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Chapter 6: How does screen time affect social connections in older adults?
And if that's gone, you don't have awareness because you don't have that impulse control and judgment. You're going to use more, the screen more, and you're also more susceptible to scams. So when your brain is flooded with this cheap, very temporary source of dopamine, when you post a picture and you're seeking thrills with the dopamines and the lights, which we do see in the older adults,
or even just short form video content. We're losing our attention spans. We are offloading memory. What you need at this time is a mental workout. And just the way the muscle is your organ of longevity, right? Your brain is as well.
I will tell you, just on a very practical level, I had this conversation with my parents. And when they retired, they were trying to decide where they were going to live. And I think there's always this tendency, I think, for people at that stage of life to say, hey, I want to live in a place that is some beautiful view.
Maybe it's a view of water or a view of the mountains, whatever, something like that, and have that thing be a part of my life.
And I remember saying, hey, I think it would be much better for you not to do that, not to find a beautiful house, but a house that might be isolated and instead live in a community where no matter what, you're going to walk out your door and you're likely to see other human beings and walk around. And there's, you know, things that keep you active, close by, tennis courts, whatever it might be.
And I think that's been a really good thing for them. But it kind of flips, I think, the scenario for a lot of people of retirement a little bit on its head because the idea that now I want to get away. The problem with getting away is, as you're pointing out, that inevitably where that leads to is a lot of time on the phone. You're not staring out the window at the mountain all day.
You're staring at this thing.
Totally. And one of the things that I'm seeing is that in midlife, there's this idea that if you want to predict somebody's health at 80,
look at their relationships and the quality of their relationships in their 40s and 50s, and that the quality of our health and the quality of our life depends on the quality of our relationships, because it's so easy when you're in the sandwich generation to not invest in your friendships. And like you said, I think about retirement. I mean, I'm still early, but I think, where would it be?
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