Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Libraries Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

Cheques and Balances

The Problem With Owning Too Much Property | Episode 483

12 May 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What are the common pitfalls of owning too much property?

0.031 - 22.191 Mike

we are back in your life oh that sounds weird anyway over the last few weeks we've talked about upgrading your property from your first home to your forever home then we've stepped back and asked the bigger question should you even be upgrading at all or would buying an investment property better your position in the long term but today we're here to talk about what happens after that so

0

22.677 - 23.218 Mike

Jessica.

0

24.039 - 24.92 Unknown

Yes.

0

25.08 - 34.373 Mike

A lot of people buy their investment property, then they do it again, then they do it again. And then 10 or 15 years later, they've got this humongous property portfolio and they don't know what to do.

0

34.393 - 45.969 Jess

We see this all the time. And if you see somebody like that, you always send them to us, which is great because the sad thing about it is that they've done what they thought was the right thing. their whole life, right?

45.989 - 46.811 Mike

I'm not saying it's the wrong thing.

46.831 - 61.02 Jess

And it's not the wrong thing. We're not saying it's the wrong thing, but they're going, well, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this, I've made sacrifices, da, da, da. And then I've got to a point where I've got this huge property portfolio, but I don't really feel wealthy. I don't feel like I'm living the life that I want.

61 - 65.909 Mike

Yeah. And then you had the discussion with them and you're like, cause they always come to me and they're like, I want another one.

66.169 - 67.913 Jess

And I'm like, that's going to fix it.

Chapter 2: How can being equity rich lead to cash flow problems?

133.258 - 149.005 Mike

I'm like, I can't do anything here, man. They're like, oh, what if we refinance? I'm like, it gets you like... some cash up front, but like you're going to rip through that eventually. And they end up in this situation where they're like, I can't retire. And you're like, you have like 5 million bucks that you can retire on.

0

149.025 - 159.722 Jess

You could have retired 10 years ago. Yeah. Honestly, it was like that. So I guess today we're going to break down a bit more about that. What should you actually do about it and how to fix it?

0

159.702 - 176.184 Mike

And we're talking about this like everyone has a giant portfolio. Not everyone has a giant portfolio. But even if you don't, don't turn off because the principles are still the same, right? Because when you're looking at how to build a property portfolio, it's really tempting to just go out there really quick and be like, give me one, give me one, give me one, give me one.

0

176.204 - 195.276 Mike

But you can focus on different kind of areas of the property market or different types of properties, yield, cash flow, active properties where you get yield and cash flow, but you have to do things to them. So again, even if you don't have a huge one, don't turn off. So the main property investor trap that we say is like, you know, we always talk about this. Equity rich, cash flow poor.

0

195.496 - 200.127 Mike

Can't eat a brick, can't sell a bedroom to go on holiday. Jess, you see that quite a bit. Talk me through it.

200.508 - 222.428 Jess

Yeah, all the time. So, you know, I've actually done a plan recently for somebody who had a ton of property, like $4.5 million worth of property. And even if, like we said, not everybody has this right now, but if that was your goal eventually, you should still know what your exit plan is. You should know why you're doing it now. Give me the why. Yeah, yeah. Why are you doing it now?

222.468 - 238.466 Jess

What is it for your future self that you're doing it for? So anyway, talking about like a $4.5 million property portfolio – they might have $2 million worth of equity in there, but they've still got some debt that they're servicing. So there's still some top-ups required for that portfolio to take off.

238.486 - 253.66 Mike

Yeah, because everyone just chucks it on interest only. Everyone's like, I'll pay off my own occupied debt, maybe if you're lucky, but I'll just chuck everything else on interest only. So you end up with this huge equity position, but your debt hasn't really reduced and rents will keep going up.

254.101 - 259.065 Mike

But often if you get a kick in that interest rate, the rents just aren't going to catch that and you'll need to keep topping up.

Chapter 3: What strategies can help restructure a property portfolio?

388.035 - 404.805 Mike

Like you could buy anything and it like double in value in like five years. So people can be lazy about the way that they're investing because they're still doing the right thing. They're still getting the right return. There's actually no need to overcomplicate it. Whereas I think now we might see more tapered growth rates in the future.

0

404.865 - 423.111 Mike

So people really have to start thinking about what they're buying. And one, what are they focusing on? Is it capital gains? Is it cash flow? Is it both? Two, what do they need in their portfolio? Because you don't need you know, 15 capital gain properties, you probably need some cash flow properties in there to prop it up as well, right?

0

423.131 - 438.007 Mike

So I think people just need to be a little bit more strategic about that. And if we look at an example, let's say we've got two investors, one focuses on capital gain, one focuses on cash flow in their property, right? So both start with $2 million. They've got a 20-year time horizon.

0

439.049 - 458.948 Mike

The capital gain-focused property, they get a 7% growth rate per year, but they're paying $1,500 a month to top that up, right? Right. Investor two, same thing, $2 million of property, but they're cash flow focused. So they get a 5% growth rate per annum, but they're earning $1,500 a month. So it's an easier portfolio to hang on to, right?

0

459.169 - 475.504 Mike

At the end of 20 years, investor one, so this is the capital gain focused property, has $7.4 million of property. That's how much it's gone up. Investor two, $5.31 million. So you can see they've got substantially less in terms of their property. They've still got a pretty good game, right?

475.484 - 496.188 Mike

If you take off the money that investor one spent because they're topping everything up and you add the money that investor two earned, which is the same amount, the net capital gain for investor one is $5.36 million and the total gain for investor two is $3.69 million. There's roughly $2 million difference there and then net end position at the end.

496.609 - 500.293 Mike

It's just that you got to have the cash to top up.

500.273 - 517.911 Jess

that portfolio right yes and because they've had the like if you have dealt with it's just the risk return thing like if you've dealt with the burden of topping up a portfolio and taken the risk of topping up the portfolio you've been rewarded for it but it's taken a long time oh absolutely so you've got to make sure you've got the cash flow to get there yeah but

517.891 - 539.491 Mike

Again, people will be looking at this and going, right, if I just knuckle down and top this thing, I'm like, yeah, okay, you will get more in the end. But what do you want? What for? Yeah. What's an extra $2 million going to get you? It might be that you go, no, I need that because of X, Y, Z. I want this much money. Come retirement, I never want to deplete the capital.

Chapter 4: Why is it important to understand your investment 'why'?

558.492 - 566.14 Jess

Like why wouldn't I? I'm like, yeah, but why? Yeah. Like what for? Yeah. And they almost like couldn't get their head around why I was even asking the question.

0

566.16 - 584.602 Mike

They look at you like you're weird, right? I know. And I'm like, we don't just buy things. I do. But, you know, like any clothes. But like, you know, it's kind of like it's one of those things where you go, cool, if that's you and you want to be the David Goggins of your intergenerational wealth and you're going to carry the boat and you're going to like build this giant portfolio. That's great.

0

585.082 - 587.565 Mike

You just might need to live off rice and beans forever to get there.

0

587.586 - 592.752 Jess

Yeah. And I think if you don't have your why clear, doing that is very hard.

0

592.732 - 593.573 Mike

And very depressing.

593.673 - 595.196 Jess

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

595.256 - 608.775 Mike

Whereas you might look at it and go, hey, you know what? The extra two million would be nice, but hey, an income would be nice along the way as well. I get to enjoy my life. There's probably less stress related to my property portfolio, hopefully. And it's still got a really good gain at the end.

608.955 - 622.114 Jess

What are you like in terms of, because I talk about this with heaps of people, so I think about it a lot. Yeah. Oh my God, don't ask me a personal question. I'm very much more like, I would rather enjoy the journey because we don't know what's going to happen next.

622.094 - 633.571 Mike

You're asking me if I would rather enjoy the journey or knuckle down. I reckon, Jess, do you know me at all? Yes, I do. Yeah, let me think about that. I'm a journey guy.

Chapter 5: What are the differences between growth and income-focused investing?

650.848 - 654.938 Mike

And I'm like, man, I'm probably not going to get there. So it doesn't matter. Right.

0

654.978 - 656.081 Jess

And I had the best time.

0

656.221 - 668.533 Mike

Yeah. I've had a great time, right? I'm still doing okay. Yeah, yeah. And again, what I think it all boils down to is the why. And that's the bit where people really get this wrong. And there's a ton of other stuff that can go wrong here, right?

0

668.834 - 692.059 Mike

The messy stuff, the messy structures, you know, separate lending facilities for each property, separate banks, loans all over everywhere, things rolling off all the time, interest rates going up, interest only periods expiring. There's a ton of stuff that Cross-securitization, heck, divorces, ownership structures, LTCs, trusts, contracting out agreements, like all of this stuff.

0

692.58 - 693.621 Jess

That's a lot to get wrong.

693.842 - 708.782 Mike

It's actually not that much that can go wrong. It will likely all go wrong because you're holding these things over 20, 30 years, right? So when I list them all out, you go, oh man, nah, if I hedge this and get this right and do this thing and do this thing, probably like pay attention to my partner a bit more, I won't get divorced, you know.

709.122 - 722.039 Mike

But like at the end of the day, these are 30-year assets, right? You know, this is not a two-year time horizon. All of this stuff will eventuate, hopefully not the divorce for you. But, you know, it's kind of one of those things where it's like you can plan it as much as you want, but it's stressful as hell.

722.26 - 739.142 Jess

And so are you also partially saying that you could get all this stuff right at this point in time, but because of like changes with banks, changes with your life and dynamics and relationships, changes with laws and regulations, like by the time you get to the point that you need to sell it, it might not have been perfect, right?

739.763 - 760.43 Mike

A really clear example of that would be I could have structured everything perfectly. I could, like starting from the start, be at the right bank, in the right entity, with the right property, have a good mix of cash flow and capital gain. I could have a contracting out agreement in place to protect my assets. I could be regularly getting some income from my property portfolio.

Chapter 6: How can debt pressure affect retirement plans?

923.937 - 947.173 Mike

Who knows? And to be honest, they're cashflow positive. Like we've gone for a really specific property type, which is not for everyone. You've got to be active in the portfolio. You've got to be managing our tenants. It's a big unit. Yeah. It's like, it's a big beast and it's not for everyone, but it's cashflow positive. So there's no initial need for us to like sell anything anytime soon.

0

948.374 - 965.457 Mike

We could probably just carve it up. You know, we could probably just divvy it up if we really wanted to. And you get that one and you get that one. And like, I don't know, we sell that one or something. But like, to be honest, it's so far in the future. I don't think James or I have actually thought about it. We've talked about it once. And we both agreed, like, why would we ever sell?

0

965.818 - 967.381 Jess

Is this like builders in their houses?

0

967.902 - 971.308 Mike

I can't see a situation now. We have...

0

971.407 - 999.895 Mike

stuff in play and like the agreements of what would happen if it all went wrong like if we were not speaking to each other like that is not the wealth cash in play which well the cash in play for me i don't want to cash them in what i want is the income and they are producing income already so i'm not actually worried yeah counter to that you can't like they're producing an income right

1000.482 - 1011.927 Jess

And some people, so like your situation might be different, but say like someone will come to me and be like, yep, I'm getting an income from my investment property portfolio. That income might be like...

1012.582 - 1034.522 Mike

grand a year and they're sitting on a lot of equity and property right yeah but we're the opposite we've gone for like cash flow properties yeah so we've focused on cash flow properties we've got the capital gains out of them by actively engineering that right we've gone in and renovated them these are not capital gain properties they're not going to appreciate at the same rate as like

1034.502 - 1039.509 Mike

a block of land on the edge of Auckland or so. Those are cap game properties.

1039.529 - 1047.041 Jess

But these people, so the people that I'm talking about, they've got equity in there and they're getting an income, but it's not substantial enough.

Chapter 7: What signs indicate you need to reassess your property investments?

1087.852 - 1092.657 Jess

You are not thinking about tenants, vacancy risks, ups and downs in interest rates.

0

1092.697 - 1097.921 Mike

Well, that's the big thing with commercial property, right? As everyone goes, if that tenant moves out, what am I going to do?

0

1098.081 - 1098.562 Unknown

Yeah.

0

1098.622 - 1116.958 Mike

And that's the thing. I think however you play it down, and if we use that earlier example, the person who's just hung on to these capital gain properties for 20 years, they've got five and a bit million to play with. Let's say you give me two million, I'll go buy you a banger commercial property, get you like – 120 in income per annum. Give the rest to Jess. She'll figure it out.

0

1116.998 - 1121.482 Mike

You can deplete that capital. You can leave your little kiddies the commercial property when you finally depart.

1121.522 - 1142.421 Jess

And everybody wins. I love that plan. That sounds like a perfect plan. I think that's the sad thing in some of these plans that I see or projections that I see is that you've got somebody who's accumulated all the wealth and they're just not willing to enjoy their life and use it to any degree. And if you look at what they're going to get to 100 with, it's, you know,

1142.401 - 1151.031 Jess

I always say either your flying business or your kids are, you know, like you can't take it with you. All you can do is spend it, work less or give it away.

1151.312 - 1173.999 Mike

Yeah. It's funny. I was talking about a funeral with someone during the week and they were like, my granddad doesn't want a funeral because he doesn't want to spend the money on the funeral. He doesn't. And specifically in his case, he's like, I don't want to spend money on people I don't like coming to the funeral. But I'm like, the money's gone. You're gone. You can't take it with you.

1174.059 - 1193.383 Jess

Yeah, it's so funny. So moral of the story is that we do like property for growth. You have to be conscious about the types of properties you're buying. Understand your why. When you've got to the point where you've accumulated the wealth and you're sort of feeling like you're not living your life the way that you thought you were, maybe it's time to talk to somebody and mix things up.

Chapter 8: What are the benefits of diversifying your investment portfolio?

0
Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.