Chief Change Officer
#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two
Tue, 15 Apr 2025
In Part Two, Sande takes us into the quieter—but more honest—chapter that followed. He shares what happened when he stepped off the growth treadmill, redefined ambition, and began unlearning the beliefs that kept him over-performing and under-listening. From rebuilding marriage to carving out what he calls Life Peels, Sande shares what it means to grow by subtracting—not stacking.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Life After the Climb“What would happen if I just got really quiet and listened? Not learned—listened.”The Life Peels Method“We’re like Michelangelo’s David. You don’t need to add anything—you just need to carve away what’s not you.”Redefining Growth “I’m done with strategy decks and trying to prove something. I just want clarity, ease, and to feel good in my skin.”Marriage in the In-Between“When our last kid left for college, we both needed space. Not because it was broken—but because we hadn’t had it before.”How Less Became More“When I let go of trying to control everything, the right things started happening. On their own.”_____________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Sande Golgart --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.15 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>150,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Who are the host and guest of this episode?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Sandy Gogart, former slam dunk champion, longtime corporate leader, and founder of SEG, which stands for Simple Easy Girls.
In this two-part series, Sandy opens up about chasing titles, burning out getting lost and realizing he has climbed the wrong mountain. We talk about ego, clarity, and the live pills method, a way of becoming more of yourself by stripping things away, not adding more on. It's personal, it's short, it's philosophical, but it's also practical. This episode might just change how you measure success.
Chapter 2: What is the SEG method and how can growth be simple and easy?
Let's get into it. Yeah, I think this is a great segue into your consulting work. You have this method called SEG, simple, easy, growth. I believe growth is the ultimate outcome of change. That's the goal. But let's be honest, change is scary. It feels risky. And it's often anything but easy. Yet you say growth can actually be simple and easy. Why is that and how? For people listening or watching,
Maybe they're stuck right now. How can they grow in the simplest, easiest way?
The whole premise of what I do, and this came from a couple of different failures where people would say, I want to grow. I don't really know that much about what we want to do. I just want to grow. And they couldn't even answer why. It was just, they felt this pressure because other people were growing. I should be keeping up. I should be growing too.
And I could see and observe that just introduced a furnace of stress and anxiety to them, their company, their employees, their customers. And it creates this really horrible kind of toxic culture that everybody's living in. If you think of it differently and you think, what is it that let's get really clear about what we really want. Not what we think we should want, but get really clear.
Let's take some real time to sit in inaction and actually think about what do we want? Because you don't have to grow your company by 10x to be successful. A lot of small business owners could, and even large business owners, freedom could be getting to the place where you're doing the same amount of revenue and working three days a week.
And having all this free time to go experience this amazing playground we're on. It could be helping families or it could be more mission oriented. Or it could be all of those things rolled into one. But what I found is most leaders are not taking the time to get clear about what they really want. So then they cannot even begin to create alignment around that. And then they're not inspired.
So they're just chasing what they think they want. And they're introducing this furnace that we've all been in. And it's just stress, anxiety. I've seen it unfold in companies like Amazon, where leadership is so pressure packed. And then one of your guests brought it up and mentioned it.
Where people contemplate or even attempt to take their own life because it's toxic, because they're chasing what they think they should be chasing, not what they're inspired to bring to life. So with Segway, I spend a lot more time asking questions. Why is that important? What about that speaks to you?
Until we get to the root of what's really inside that person and allow them to really think and feel, man, this is what I want my company to be. This is what I want us as a team collectively to go and do and bring to life and create. And then now you have an inspired leader. that's really clear about what he or she wants to accomplish, who can now create alignment with a team.
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Chapter 3: Why is clarity important for leaders and how does interference affect it?
We're going to really hammer down and That's why you have so many people quiet quitting, mental health issues are on the rise. Leaders just, it's not they don't want to. Leaders themselves also want to do an amazing job. They're doing the best they can. They're just getting caught up in all the other stuff.
So I help them pull all this stuff apart, get really centered so that amazing things can happen.
You mentioned clarity and how it's so important, especially for leaders and CEOs. but you also brought up interference, which is the enemy of clarity. Now, speaking of that, you would have another venture called Life Peels. You told me it has grown so fast, you actually had to slow it down a bit. Tell us more about what Life Peels is all about and how it connects with SEG
How do you blend those two approaches together?
Absolutely. And the thing about those titles that makes it very difficult is with those people are wrapped up in the identity of being a CEO. So now they have more pressure from the outside for what they think they should be doing because they have a certain title. That...
creates even more havoc i would almost be a huge fan that we just do away with all titles and just let natural hierarchy take its course but that's probably for a way different time so life peels is something i'm incredibly passionate about and it's it comes from what i just described which is the idea that most of the time we're in our own way
so the biggest amount the biggest space between me and where I ultimately want to be in life is me it's the things I'm doing with the way I think the way I feel which causes me to do the things the actions which create patterns and those patterns create exactly what I see the result so if I'm unwilling what that tells me then is the interference between where I'm at and where I want to be
is really the sum of all my patterns. So I have to change and rewire how I think, how I feel, how I act. So I have new patterns that create a totally different outcome. So Life Peels comes from the story of the Statue of David. So in Florence, it's widely regarded as the most beautiful statue in the world.
But what I didn't realize is that it was originally commissioned by several artists before Michelangelo. It was this chunk of marble that they brought in from the mountains in northern Italy. And it sat in Florence for over 40 years. They kept bringing artists in to look at it. And all the artists said, it's not good. I can't work with this. It's old.
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Chapter 4: What is the Life Peels method and how does it relate to personal growth?
Yes.
You start to go back to a more primitive discussion. I don't know why I'm chasing money. Why is money so important? My health is the most important thing to me. Yeah. 30 years was so willing to sacrifice my health for money. It's very strange. If you look at just Steve Jobs, how much money would he have paid his life another 30 years?
Yeah.
And that's where you realize becoming aware, removing the interference, you pay attention to things like that and you go, I don't want to be Steve Jobs anymore. I thought I did, but I don't. I want to be a really healthy, clear thinking, high vibrational person that helps everyone enjoy their time on earth. That's what I want. First and foremost, if money comes great.
You mentioned the Earth being like Disneyland. I love that idea. I love that image. I actually started thinking, when was the last time I went to Disneyland? I think it was Tokyo. And I must say, Tokyo Disneyland is honestly better than the ones in the US. Every time I'm there, I feel pure joy. trying out the food, walking around, being silly, checking out souvenirs.
For that one day, it really does feel like a playground. But of course, once you leave, reality hits again. There's life, work, stress. But the way you put it, what if the whole world is Disneyland? That mindset alone already opens things up. Even before finding clarity, if we see life as a playground, it changes everything. We are more open, more alive. You also talk about live pills.
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Chapter 5: How does the story of Michelangelo’s David illustrate the Life Peels concept?
Is that a product, an app? Would love to hear more about what it actually looks like or how it works.
It's an app that will help you identify key moments in your day where you are inspired, where you're super present, as well as times in the day when you weren't very present. And it helps you create more awareness. With the things that you love to do, because they're not always so apparent, things that take you off of being aware, you can start to get more in tune.
Then I'll have some planning tools that help you identify where you want to go or where you think you want to go. It'll help you identify what the interference is and start to just slowly work at it. peeling back the layers so you can let your best self emerge and you'll have your own dashboard. So you can see over time, three months ago, here's where I was.
And now I'm vibrating at a much higher level. I'm enjoying life. And I can see where my trajectory, I'm on a crash course with making my life Disneyland all the time. Right? Yes. Because what's so amazing, and this just happens as you're going through the process, you really do reach a point. Like when I started, for example, I thought maybe all this was just a mind trick.
You're just learning to tell yourself different things. How great could it really be? I can tell you right now, every morning I wake up, I'm like giddy with the idea that there is oxygen waiting to be breathed in. It's amazing. Yeah. And I think, how often have I ever thought about and appreciated that miracle?
That when I wake up, there's oxygen just hanging around my lips, waiting to be breathed in, which gives me more life. And then how much more I appreciate every breath. Which takes me down this whole other rabbit hole of life experience, which is not to waste a single breath. If you look in nature, animals that breathe lower live longer. So a tortoise lived far longer than a hummingbird.
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Chapter 6: How can small incremental changes lead to significant long-term growth?
So the faster we're going, the harder we're trying, the more stressed out we're becoming, the more we're shortening our own life. Just learn to take it easy. Get clear, build clarity. It doesn't have to happen all in one day.
And then you'll slowly watch your whole life do a 180 and then just spiral up into this amazing thing of energy where you have all this stuff working for you, nothing working against you. And you'll just see all these amazing miracles happening for you. All we have to do is strip away the things that are interfering and allow it to happen. We're not in charge as much as we think.
Like, just let... You know, it's like a light and the energy just happens. We don't force it down the wire so that it illuminates the room. It just happens. But as humans, we've thought... that we're here for a certain purpose. Like, I was sent here to be the best insurance salesman of my company. No, you weren't. Nobody was sent here to be an insurance salesman. No one was sent here.
We've made all these other things up. You were sent here to be in tune with nature, It realized that we're all the same. We're all from the same source of energy. We're all one, but we're all have the ability to help each other and just be.
And then in that, be productive, be positive, be somebody who lives in abundance where you're helping everybody, not in scarcity where you think you have to get your fair share or someone else is going to take it and allow an amazing life to just happen. And that's where that real stretch in between the years comes where you say, Yeah, but how? When I have a mortgage, how?
When I have a car payment, when I know that I want nice things. And that's what I'm looking forward to understanding even better and being able to bring back to people as a guide to help people see as I went through it. What's it like? Can you really do this? And what things do you really need to be aware of? Because right now it just sounds too simple.
It sounds so simple that people won't do it because you get so afraid, so fearful of what might happen to you. that you jump off that bell curve really early and you're like, I got to go make it happen. There's no way the universe is going to allow great things to happen for me. I have to go do it. So, you know, that's again what I dedicated and devoted myself to is finding out that path.
I can tell you this. I think I'm right in the middle of that process. 2025 has already brought a lot of changes for me. And things are still moving. It's all unfolding as I go.
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Chapter 7: How does Sande redefine success and what does it mean to grow by subtracting?
The fact that you're doing it means you're in it. Like you are being, just keep being. And you go, you just allow more and more great things to happen. I 100% agree with you and I can't wait to hear. Because you're clearly tuning in to how much is waiting for you.
So far, we've talked a lot about your career, leadership, everything on the corporate side, but one key part of life is our personal journey. You are now running two ventures. You have two sons who are grown, and you are starting to focus more on yourself. For many people, that kind of life transition can be tough. Some call this the empty nest phase.
I actually interviewed an other guest, a mother who shared her own story of navigating that chapter. Now, I'd love to hear yours. You're a father, your kids have grown up and moved on, and it's just you and your wife at home. How have you embraced this new stage of life? And how have you blended that shift with the same mindset as you've applied to your work and leadership?
Yeah. So I think for me, My 25 years of raising kids was all about my kids. I made it about them. I wanted to be the CEO, the senior vice president, making good money for them. That's what I felt was my purpose. When they got out of the house, they went on to great colleges, they had great experiences, they're debt-free, got good jobs.
At that point in time, this is when I think it's so critical that your awareness is there, because I realized now is a great time to think about yourself. You, on this playground, have only a certain number of days left. So how can you make the most of them? And I start by doing quick, easy, it wasn't easy at the beginning, daily meditation to just start quieting my mind.
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Chapter 8: What is the Life Peels app and how does it help track personal transformation?
And by quieting your mind in the beginning, it's really about paying attention to the thoughts that you have in your head. So I started paying attention to the thoughts in my head. I couldn't believe like how negative they were, how much I felt like the world was holding me back, how I was now becoming older and starting to create doubts about what could you do post 50?
What would anyone pay you to do? Starting to pay attention to these things. And I started to realize too, I wasn't really doing all the things I'd love to do. And then as I started working through those things over a couple of years, I started to recognize there was some underlying tension that I had never really paid attention to. My wife had never really paid attention to.
But because we were cleaning our energy and not looking at shaming or figuring out who it was, we started to have discussions about, are you really living your best life? and started to explore some conversations and subjects that would have been very uncomfortable before. And we started to realize that we weren't.
We were suppressing what our real feelings were for life, for each other, for ourselves, to fit a construct of a successful marriage. Which by our own definition was, if you stay married, it's successful. If you don't, it's unsuccessful. Of course, you have to sacrifice and figure out how to make it successful. So we just gave each other permission. We just said, what if we just said,
divorce is an option doesn't mean it's a failure but let's just not live our life as a as our purpose is to not make something happen what if you my wife who's an amazing person like very fit healthy gorgeous model kind like it's everything you think that you would want I just said, what if you lived exactly the way you want to live?
Just the things that you want to do, the things you feel like you're here to do, I'll do the same. And we'll just see, does that bring us closer together or help us recognize maybe we can support each other better by being apart?
And through that, by giving ourselves that permission to be ourselves, let our truest self emerge, we both came to the conclusion, with the help also of an energy healer who was helping us understand what was going on, that we were better off and we were going to be more able to support each other. Which is really, when you think about it, it's like,
The ultimate definition of unconditional love is loving someone unconditionally. If it's better for you to go on your own and explore the world, then I'm here for you. I'm here for that. I can support you in that effort. And I too owe it to myself to support myself and love myself enough to let my best version emerge. And just because that we're concluding
Doesn't mean that we're going to stay together. That doesn't mean it's a failure. That means in my mind now, it's an even greater success because I'm not requiring you to stick around, bury some things that you would really prefer to come out in the rest of your life because of me. I don't want to be that burden. I want to support you. I want to be your biggest cheerleader.
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