Chief Change Officer
#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go
Sat, 3 May 2025
In this final installment, Gen X executive coach Jennifer Selby Long goes deep on the real decision behind office politics: should you stay or should you go? Drawing from decades of experience guiding leaders through complex change, she lays out the subtle dynamics that determine whether a culture is salvageable—or just stuck. From the hidden toll of hybrid models to bosses who subtly push out high performers, Jennifer offers tools for cutting through confusion. And with a memorable framework inspired by civil rights leader Clarence Jones, she helps listeners evaluate not just what they want—but whether the system they’re in will ever let them have it. For Gen Xers caught in the gray area between loyalty and realism, this episode offers clarity with no illusions.Why Toxic Cultures Repeat“People leave a bad boss… only to land in a similar situation.”Jennifer explains how unaddressed internal patterns can reappear in new jobs—and what to do before making another move.Hybrid Work, Hidden Agendas“If your team isn’t working together in person, politics won’t disappear—they’ll just change form.”She discusses the tradeoffs of hybrid workplaces and how physical distance can mask, not eliminate, power struggles.When the Best Performers Leave“I’ve seen bosses quietly engineer ways to push out brilliant people.”Jennifer and Vince unpack the dynamic where insecurity—not excellence—shapes who gets to stay.Conflict is Not the Enemy“Most people waste time fighting battles that could’ve been solved with a conversation.”She breaks down how conflict-avoidance fuels politics—and why stepping back to understand styles and misalignment is essential.Clarence Jones’ Test for Staying or Leaving“You won’t prevail unless the powerful majority sees that what you want is in their interest.”Jennifer shares hard-earned political wisdom: how to evaluate whether your values and goals can survive the system—or if it’s time to walk._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Jennifer Selby Long --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What are the hidden dynamics behind office politics?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.
In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.
We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or
An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.
We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.
Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?
On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. It creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.
Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?
Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?
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Chapter 2: Can hybrid work help or hinder office politics?
Yeah, I think it's a great question because it is very much our current situation for many businesses. And I wish the answer were super simple. It's not quite as simple as I wish it were because it does depend a little bit on your situation. So, In the hybrid work model, are people going into the office to just work on their own work?
If so, I'm not sure you're going to get huge benefit out of that in terms of lessening politics or political alliances because they're not really interacting that much. Nor do I think you're going to get, you know, much of the benefit of obviously of working on very complex problems together if you're not really there to work together.
The other particular challenge I'll play you in is most of the clients that we work with are distributed not throughout one metropolitan area, but across the globe. And so... Sure, if your team is largely local and you can get together fairly regularly with intention, with the purpose of working on complex problems, right? Coming to very challenging agreements together.
Sure, you want to do that in person. You are going to get a better result. But if your team is distributed around the globe, I would question how much significant benefit there would be to going into an office. You would all just be in different offices.
So I think you really have to look at being incredibly purposeful for when you get together and to work on the talk stuff when you are together and not just simply trust that. The fact that you can have a lunchtime conversation in and of itself is going to be a nod.
In fact, one of my clients is working on what they call more a sense of belonging or connectedness across their very global organization. And they're experimenting with all kinds of things to help build more of that personal trust. I'll let you know how those experiments go across time, because this is a significant challenge. People who are lonely at work and don't feel connected.
It's a big problem. It's a big problem in a lot of places. It causes a lot of additional problems. And from my point of view, it feeds notions of politics because there are people who feel connected and people who don't feel connected. And if you feel more connected, you're going to be more of an insider, right?
You're going to have more of an understanding of the political dynamic and the needs of other people. So I think that this is one we need to keep observing, assessing, and experimenting with across time. It's a super new way to work when you look at how very many years people work together in person. And it's really only been the last few where the majority do not work together in person.
When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's words moved, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.
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Chapter 3: Why do high performers leave organizations?
Oh my gosh, I've had teams that were leadership teams. See, you said we're just starting to backbite one another and get into a little bit of gamesmanship. And when we analyze the different styles on the team and we were able to step back objectively and look at that and say, can you come to some agreements? on your behaviors? Because you all have naturally different styles.
You're all coming in with naturally different assumptions about what it means to be on a team, what it means to communicate, what it means to commit. You all have different assumptions about what that looks like. And so stepping back to look at the style and do you have conflict that is really exacerbated by these different styles and the fact that you haven't talked about it out loud?
You've just frustrated one another. So as you start to work your way through this checklist of things, eventually what you come down to is the substance of what you don't agree on. And from there, then you can start to work through what that is. But it's often quite small compared to what it looks like because people are not taking the time to raise and deal with conflict.
It's exacerbates the politics in the situation, right? Because it feeds... That lack of trust. And where you know the lack of trust, of course, you're going to have more politics. You're going to have much more of those power battles. Where you have more trust, you're going to have less of that. Just because of human nature.
At the end of the day, it's about knowing yourselves and being intentional in choosing the workplace culture that fits your character and values. If you thrive in office politics and it energizes you, a politically charged environment might suit you. But if that's not who you are, staying in such an environment could lead to frustration, burnout, disengagement, and lower productivity.
For those feeling stuck, Reflect on whether you can adapt without compromising your values. Ask yourself, does this place, does this environment truly support who I am and how I work best? If the answer is no, it might be time to move on to a place that aligns better with your strengths. It allows you to grow. Change isn't just about leaving. It's about finding the right fit to thrive.
Yeah. You need to find the environment that is the best fit for you and for what you enjoy. I love your example of the person who said, yeah, we could probably be a lot more effective or successful if we had left from the political animal thing. But the reality was that was what that organization was like and he saw it. And so maybe that was not the right fit.
But maybe for someone who enjoyed that culture, it would be a great fit and they'd be pretty happy there. I do think what you said reminded me of The advice that is actually, it's not my own. It was from Martin Luther King's personal attorney, Clarence Jones. And he was part of the core group of activists who worked really closely with Dr. King.
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Chapter 4: How can we address toxic workplace environments?
And I was super fortunate to hear him speak a number of years ago. Imagine your situation now. They have figured out that their movement is never going to get what it needs if they do not get a powerful white man from the South to align and to become an advocate. And that's got to be something that was pretty painful for them to realize.
But the realization was there are no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only permanent interests. So what are your interests? What are theirs? Well, in this case, they figured out that they needed a stakeholder who was a powerful white Theternet.
In your case, you might find that your personal interests and the personal interests of a firm that has that more intensely competitive political culture are aligned or not aligned, right? What are your interests? What are their interests when assessing the environment that you're in and the ones you're considering?
Get really clear on your own interests or values that are fundamentally unchanging and core. Your deep interests, right? The deep things that are who you are, not the more superficial current interests like I need to make this much money to, I don't know, pay my mortgage.
The second thing he said is you will not prevail unless the powerful majority sees that what you want is also in their interests.
and i do think sometimes what looks like intense politics is actually just the flying interest the powerful majority and your interests are not they don't go together right looking at who stands to lose if you win if it's a whole lot of people that's going to be a highly political environment right but if you can Help those people to not lose money, to not lose space, to not lose if you prevail.
If you can find a way that it could make it a win or a benefit to at least some degree for everyone involved, particularly if you're in a leadership role, that could give you a wonderful outcome where you don't have to make a dramatic change. What can you offer to these folks? How can you align what you want with their interests and vice versa?
And I will say sometimes the best outcome involves someone getting what they want, even if they don't deserve it, if it still gives you the outcome that you want. And to use sort of your painful example, if you leave because your boss was particularly unfair to you, they might get what they want and they don't deserve it, but they get the headcount reduction that you would say they don't deserve.
But just try to let it go. If it gets you the outcome that you want, what you really want is to move on to somewhere else. And identify, you absolutely must identify the strongest ally from the powerful majority and make him or her a leader in whatever your cause is if you're going to stay. Because you don't want to stay and be constantly feeling like you're swimming upstream and can't win.
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