Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
6,000 LETTERS, THOUSANDS IN DONATIONS, BILLBOARDS RENTED, LUIGI MANGIONE FANS WONT STOP
19 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The defense for the alleged assassin, Luigi Mangione, actually gets up in court and talks about how Mangione is the victim, actually claiming with a straight face that his, quote, beautiful, promising life has been derailed by those pesky murder charges. Wow.
I wonder how the murder victim's family is feeling about right now. He's leaving behind a wife and two sons. And Luigi Mangione's defense team claims he's the victim. And I haven't even got started on what they are trying to have thrown out of evidence so a jury will never hear the truth.
Chapter 2: What is the background of the Luigi Mangione case?
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
What is the address of your emergency? It's not really an emergency. I just, I have a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that he looks like the CEO shooter from New York. Okay.
Straight out to Kayla Brantley joining us, investigative reporter at large, DailyMail.com. Did they actually say in court that their client, Luigi Mangione, is the victim because his, quote, beautiful, promising life has been derailed?
Yeah, Nancy, as you mentioned, his team did paint him as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain. This was something that he went through. He went through back surgery. And one thing that they say here is that the real enemy here is the medical system.
And that is one thing that you can definitely expect his legal team to argue.
Right.
Kayla, can I believe you or my lying eyes? Control room, please. Show me him running along the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting up girls and tickling them. It's a video. They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those photos of him hiking in what looks to be a jungle rainforest.
Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Kayla Brantley. I hope you don't fall for that, hook, line, and seeker. Dr. Judy Ho. Did you know that Luigi Mangione is apparently the victim in this scenario? Dr. Judy Ho is joining us, clinical forensic neuropsychologist, author of The New Rules of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self-Sabotage.
You need to write one, Dr. Judy Ho, about try to tell the truth. And then send it, you know, I'll pay for it and we can send it to Luigi Mangione.
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Chapter 3: How does Luigi Mangione's defense team portray him as a victim?
He is not the victim here. But, you know, you can't count out the defense attorney Agnefello. He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds. He essentially won that case. Yes, it's his defense team that claims Luigi Mangione is the victim. I want to read it, Dr. Judy Ho.
Beautiful, promising life derailed by those irritating murder charges, Judy.
Wow, beautiful, promising life, Nancy. What a narrative. And as you said, even though he's not the victim, I think this is why there has been a fan base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe he is a victim, that he's some type of anti-hero, that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals who might act charismatically.
They just seem to pull people in. And it's weird because a lot of these people who develop this sort of fan fanhood around Luigi, they're kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a special person. in his life. Maybe he'll pay attention to me. Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person. This person might learn to trust me.
It's really interesting, but some of it actually has to do with a self-centeredness of people who might actually talk to him, that they're hoping to get something special out of it for themselves.
I'm sorry, Dr. Judy Ho, I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I don't even know what you just said.
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Chapter 4: What evidence is being challenged in court and why?
How can the defense stand up and say, this is not about THE MURDER VICTIM. CAN WE SHOW, PLEASE, BRIAN THOMPSON WALKING ALONG AND HE'S GUNNED DOWN IN COLD BLOOD, LEAVING BEHIND TWO SONS AND A WIFE. THAT'S THE VICTIM. ACCORDING TO PROSECUTORS, IT'S LUIGI MANGIONE HOLDING A 3-D WEAPON THAT HE MADE THAT IT TOOK DOZENS AND DOZENS OF HOURS TO MAKE SO HE CAN GUN DOWN A GUY WALKING TO WORK IN THE BACK.
You stated, I don't know what that was, Dr. Judy Ho. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer. I didn't understand it. But I think I know some of the people that consider Luigi Mangione to be the victim. And here they are filing into court. Okay. Oh, what? Luigi fights fascists. Okay.
Okay.
Look at this line. Now, wait till you see the catwalk parade of sad sack women filing in. They won't even show their face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangione. Yes. Keep it going. Keep it going. Because I've got hours of people crying. Yeah, that was totally walking the catwalk right there. Clamoring to get in to just bask in the glow of Luigi Mangione. Oh, it keeps going. Yeah. On and on.
They had to turn women away. And it's not just women. Listen.
So this is who police believe was responsible for the UnitedHealthcare CEO Pew Pew. His name's Luigi.
all i can say is um mama mia does he need a mario i'm kidding i believe it was a great philosopher and poet once said mama i'm in love with a criminal and this type of love isn't rational it's physical that was britney spears and i believe we're all feeling that right now i believe if you're going to superhero like you better look like one okay this man clearly did that did he train at the marvel studios with all the other chrises okay because luigi
That's a spicy meatball. I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim to be a Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm going to forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right? But not forget because... I mean, my God, how could you forget an angel like this?
I'm not gonna lie, for a while I thought, oh my God, we're never gonna find him, you know? And I was wrong. Because somewhere along the way, the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the masks and no masks, this man, he found a way into our hearts. He did.
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Chapter 5: What psychological factors contribute to the public's fascination with Mangione?
Why me? And he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection, as we say in court, with bride killer Jamie Lee Komorowski. Listen to her. I still just don't know why this had to happen to me.
Because bad things happen to good people, honey. That's why. It's just, it's just fate. It's just something that happened to you and we are going to deal with it the best we can, okay?
Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter. You know who the bride killer is, right? Jamie Lee Komorowski. She's guilty. She got totally stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride, leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed her. And there she is behind bars going, why is this happening to me? One look and listen to her father, Nancy. What does he say?
Well, bad things happen to good people. No, they don't. You just killed somebody because of your own actions. But see, we've got a whole group of people now that never want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them. How can you possibly think? Man, Joni is sitting here saying his life is derailed. Well, he destroyed another life and another family. Komorowski's sitting in jail.
Why is this happening to me? Well, why not? What did you expect would happen? Sick of this, Nancy. It's getting really tiresome. And there is her victim, Samantha Miller. in her wedding dress just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komorowski. And here's, I guess, this would have to be the Miss Universe of Why Me, Jodi Arias. Check her out. She is more concerned about her makeup.
as she is approaching trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance, Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least 29 times. Joe Scott Morgan and I have argued about that. I say it was more than that. Check it out. Jody Arias, you should have at least done your makeup before you speak to police about murdering your fiancƩ when he broke up and started seeing someone else.
That earlier video from 48 Hours, Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics. Do you recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video, because as they're about to question her about what could have happened to Travis Alexander, she starts singing, and there you go, does a headstand, and bemoans the fact she doesn't have on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott.
What happened to Travis?
Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down nude, taken a shower, taken dirty pictures, if you will. And while his back is turned, she takes a knife and plunges it into his back over and over and over again. When he turns around to defend himself. to try to parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the chest as well.
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Chapter 6: How does the legal system handle evidence suppression in high-profile cases?
Every shot I see of him, he's out in nature. He's not at work. We keep hearing he quit his job. He was laid off. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe the job interfered with the tickling. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Throughout this week, Luigi Mangione and his defense team have been fighting it out in court to get a lot of evidence suppressed. Forget about all the sad sack women lined up to get in.
Forget about the martyrdom of Luigi Mangione. Let's talk about the facts and the law. Listen. orders as she tells the operator, I have a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that he looks like the CEO shooter in New York and they're just really upset and come to me and I'm like, I can't approach him.
The manager continues working and can be heard talking about bagels at one point shouting, one of them is no butter. The 911 operator, Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to ask for a description with the manager replying, the only thing you can see is the eyebrows. Joining us is Skye Lazaro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
She's practiced in both state and federal court. She is with Ray Quinney and Nebaker. Skye, thank you for being with us. If the defense is arguing that Luigi Mangione was illegally arrested, the 911 call occurred before the arrest. So what could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager?
I think they're going to have a really hard time keeping the 911 call out. I can understand it from a defense perspective. You have to try.
But when it comes to 911 calls, as long as you can lay the foundation for it, it's probably coming in. I can tell you one thing I know, Skye Lazaro, that they hate about this 911 call. We had the same thing happen in the Idaho slayings of four beautiful Idaho University students, where Dylan Mortenson described Brian Koberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows. Listen.
I just remember seeing this figure that was, like, not fat, obviously, but more of, like, the skinnier tongue build. and some mask on. I don't know what the mask exactly was, but when I thought about it, it was just like covering here and here. I don't know if it was covering his mouth, his nose, or below his mouth and nose.
I just remember knowing that he was white, but I didn't know how he was white. I just knew he was. And just knowing there was, like, I knew he looked at me because of a bushy eyebrow. That's all I remember.
Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective, 30 years. now star of the Gold Shields podcast, and he covered the very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified, he was a chef, by the way, identified by a particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber identified because he walked slew-footed, in other words, like a duck.
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Chapter 7: What role does social media play in shaping public perception of defendants?
There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to have these big assault rifles that, frankly, I had no idea it was in their arsenal. And to have all of these The press there, the media there, it was like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York City mayor doing at this press conference? He is a walking, talking contradiction.
He supposedly is, again, this wealthy CEO, yet he comes for money. This is a guy living in a high-rise in Honolulu, waking up to the beach every morning. Did you wake up to a beach view this morning? Because I sure did not. The Luigi Mangione defense is fighting tooth and nail to keep out what happened in that McDonald's.
And as Cheryl McCollum is pointing out, that body cam is going to be so significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigi Mangione claims he's the victim. What matters is what really happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the 911 call suppressed. That's not happening. But what happened in the McDonald's?
Is the state going to lose valuable evidence on a legal technicality? Why is it they want that backpack suppressed? Straight out to investigator at large for DailyMail.com, Kayla Brantley. What was in the backpack?
Nancy, there was a 3D printed gun. It's a handgun, which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon. There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. And then he also had a knife on him, which was discovered about 20 minutes later. So he was armed. And at that point, he was considered very dangerous. OK, hold on.
What did you say? was written in Mangione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack?
That he wanted and he used the word whack, the health care CEO. Whack meaning kill, hurt, destroy.
No wonder they want it suppressed. To Dave Mack, a Crime Stories investigative reporter, tell me about the 3D gun, sometimes called a ghost gun. Well, Nancy, we have not been given the very specifics of what type of gun. We know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact name of it. 3D printed firearms take a massive amount of time and filament, far more than any other.
The Liberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one to print and takes the shortest amount of time. The Liberator takes 30 hours. of constant printing with nonstop printing, Nancy, 30 hours to print the easiest of all the pistols. Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun. It's made on a 3D printer, Tom. It's unserialized. That's why they're so popular amongst criminals.
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Chapter 8: What are the implications of 3D-printed firearms in criminal cases?
And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the barrel of a gun. That gun might look like all the other guns in the gun store showcase, but it's not. Because inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in a certain way. and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside of the barrel. And as that bullet shoots down the barrel, it is forever marked by those imperfections.
So when you take the murder weapon to the crime lab, and you shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take the known bullet dug out of the victim, and you put it under a microscope next to the one you just shot, It's like a fingerprint. No other gun, be it a 3D printed gun, a grandma's Bessie's out from under her mattress, you can track and identify like a fingerprint.
That bullet came from that gun. Isn't that true?
100%, and that's the best way to say it. It's the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in the twist marks and all of that is what you match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that you will match up the weapon, the round taken out of the victim and match it up. And that is damaging when it comes to court.
Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are fighting to the death in court to keep that jury from ever knowing of a ballistics match, that his 3D printed gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney. For nearly an hour, we alleged the defendant waited in the area near the Hilton Hotel, waiting for Mr. Thompson to appear. From 6.38 a.m.
to 6.44 a.m., the defendant stood across from the entrance of the hotel on West 54th Street. When he saw Mr. Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind. We allege he then took out a 9-millimeter 3D-printed ghost gun equipped with a 3D-printed suppressor and shot him once in the back and once in the leg. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
What about his beach bum life just before the assassination? Right around the time he disappeared, he traipsed off to Asia and he went on a backpacking trip. The beach bum photos and the $2,000 a month high rise and the frolicking in Honolulu. Oh, my goodness. He might as well have bucked up with the Ritz.
Kelly Brantley, Daily Mail, the defense for Luigi Mangione is also trying to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards. He had special guards behind bars, so nothing would happen to him like it did to Epstein. So let's first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was minding Mangione. What did Mangione allegedly say to Rivers?
Nancy, Luigi was held for 10 days in Pennsylvania, and he had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being compared to the Unabomber. He also said that mainstream media was more focused on crime and that when you looked at social media, they were really more focused about the health care industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said this was really about. Wow.
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