Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing. Day 12. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. We are at an hour of desperation. And we need your help. What happened?
Chapter 2: What updates are there on Nancy Guthrie's disappearance?
Was this really a kidnapping? Totally terrifying situation.
You don't know what is real, what is fake at this point. This criminal did mess up somewhere, and they will be caught.
As we go to air, we have learned that a tent, a forensics evidentiary tent, has been put up outside Nancy Guthrie's home. Let's take a look at this. This was first reported by Matt Finn, FNC. A tent going up outside the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home. The first comment was someone... opining that a body had been found. I don't think that is the case.
Although I understand why the viewer said that. Again, that's from Matt Finn, FNC. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now, straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons. You and I have been on plenty of crime scenes. Why a tent at this juncture outside Nancy Guthrie's front porch?
Yeah, what's unique about this crime scene is you've got not only your standard national media attention, or I shouldn't say standard. You've got an incredible amount of national media attention, YouTubers, members of the public out there. This is very likely done to protect whatever those agents are doing in there. So the equipment they're bringing in isn't being analyzed.
The people aren't being photographed as they're working and that speculation isn't being generated from whatever's happening.
But who cares about speculation, Brian? Whatever is speculated doesn't matter to the FBI. Typically, a tent like that is put up when evidence is being recovered, sensitive evidence. Agree or disagree? Or, Fitzgibbons, when the evidence, as I said, was so sensitive, you don't want it, how can I say, polluted or destroyed in any way?
I would agree.
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Chapter 3: What forensic evidence is being collected at the crime scene?
And I would say that this is done more for concealment and moreover for the suspect to be aware of exactly where they're looking. So, you know, this is protecting the integrity of what they're doing.
What about it, Scott Eicher? So there's some good equipment that we can use set into that little foyer area and it'll laser measure that whole area. So it'll give us like a model of how tall the arch is, all the bricks where they are at. So it'd be a very detailed model. picture using lasers to get that documented. Also, I mean, have we ever seen anybody in there looking for hairs?
I mean, this guy stood there for a while working with the door, bringing in shrubbery. Did he shed some hairs? Did he shed some DNA? They might be just, you know, meticulously looking for anything that's still in that front porch area.
Iker, could you explain the laser equipment you are describing that would take specific measurements?
Yes, it's a device you set in the middle of a room and it takes laser measurements all around to give you exactly the model of that room. We've used it in numerous different cases, even in the theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado.
You were motioning with your hands when you said you put the device in the middle of a room and it takes measurements all around and you were making a spiral gesticulation. What does that mean?
Well, the laser has to go all the kind of rotates around in measuring all the different parts of the room. So you give you a full measurement of how far this wide it is, how deep it is, how tall it is. We need measurements on that arch also. Right. One of those things is going to help us give a height to this gentleman that's walking to the door. Right?
Because we now can say, oh, when he stood up, he reached this brick in this archway, so he's that tall. So there's a lot of information we can get from these type videos.
So why would they need the tent to do that? To block off the arch to get the interior dimensions of the porch?
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Chapter 4: How is the community being involved in the search for Nancy?
Wow. Okay. Now, we've heard from Iker, Scott Iker. We've heard from Brian Fitzgibbons. Eric Faddis, you were mentioning earlier about how the scene was released too soon and various people could go up and take photos of Nancy's blood. I'm going to circle this back to the tent. That's a problem if there ever is a trial regarding chain of custody.
Oh, that's exactly right. I mean, in order to enter evidence at a trial, there has to be a sound chain of custody. There has to be proof that what you're giving to the jury is authentic, that it hasn't been contaminated, that it hasn't been tampered with. And that is always a significant issue when there are scene containment problems like in this case.
And if they're doing this now, why now and not 12 days ago? This would seem to be something that crime scene specialists would do on the first or possibly second day.
Faddis, you're absolutely correct. And that would be a great question for Nanos, the sheriff, because 12 days ago, the FBI had not been invited in. Right? They were not given jurisdiction. So all of these things were just thrown out the window. Nothing happened. No video, no measurements of the area. We didn't need measurements of the area because we didn't have the video of the guy.
And it just builds and builds and builds. So you're right about that. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, what about the fact that you heard Fitzgibbon say, He thinks the tent is largely for secretiveness, to keep what's happening a secret. I wonder also how it affects the family when they see evidence being carted out, when they realize what's going on.
He also mentioned, he and Iker both, that you don't want to tip the perp off about every single thing that's happening.
And all of those are excellent points. But the family is the first group of people that I thought of when we found out that a tent was going up because we associate that with finding remains of a person. And so I can only imagine for them already being in this emotional limbo that they're in and having to wait and see, just like the rest of us in many ways, and how hard this must be for them.
Oh, gosh, yes.
When you see a tent like that going up around your mom's home, it's got to, just like the first comment was, oh, I pray to God in heaven, they're not bringing out a body. Because we're used to seeing that go up in the middle of nowhere where you've found a body. We've seen it over and over and over. Another development, Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter.
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Chapter 5: What role does digital forensics play in this investigation?
Follow him. I want to see where he goes.
Yeah, trying to see.
Keep going, Dave. Oh, it is a second backpack.
Yep.
And he's not getting in the vehicle.
No. And now the thing is, Nancy.
What is he doing? Wait, watch this, Dave. He hangs it over the side. He reaches over. Something's happening on the other side of that wall.
There's somebody else over there, I think. Because he's getting something from somebody. I mean, why not? He's not reaching far enough over to be getting something from the ground. You see, he's only reaching about three feet down is all he can get to.
Is he trying to get in behind that gate, trying to reach around to find the latch and get in? And he's not going to the car. So who is he and why is he there? And about what time of the day or night did this take place, Dave Mack?
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Chapter 6: What insights do experts provide about the suspect's behavior?
So this is taking place at the same time. It takes six minutes difference between the 147 on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. And here we go, not far from her house, a guy walking around with backpacks at the same time within minutes. Again, this just seems beyond strange. You've got a guy with two backpacks. He's handing it over the fence. He's grabbing something else. You saw him.
He's got backpack in his left arm. He's reaching with his right arm. And now he comes back up. He's holding the left bag up and reaching with his right. He's resting that left bag on that brick wall there.
It looks to me that Jackie's right. It looks like he's trying to get in that gate. Guys, this was posted on Ring Neighbor app. It's an app. A lot of people have them in neighborhoods and everybody in the neighborhood can look at it. Ring Neighbor app. We're not saying this guy is the perp.
the reason it caught our attention is and it's posted by i amy lee on x and it's from the ring neighbor app and the reason dave that you and i are so interested in it is it's around 2 a.m in the morning of the same night nancy guthrie is kidnapped starting around 1.47 a.m. to a.m., there was a spike in her heart monitor, her pacemaker spikes, and in 20 minutes or so, she's gone.
This is just a few miles from Nancy's home. Again, we're not saying that this is the perp. I'm saying this was posted on the Ring Neighbor app. a few miles from Nancy's home the night she disappears, within minutes of her disappearance. Who is this guy, and what is he doing? Does that gate lead to a back alley? Does it lead to a back road to Nancy Guthrie's house?
This has been sent to the FBI, and tonight we are calling on all neighbors, everyone, look at your ring apps, look at your door cams. This is how the case is going to be cracked wide open. By someone seeing something, a girlfriend, a wife, a friend, noticing something unusual. It's going old school right now in the search for Nancy Guthrie.
Also, in addition to that tent going up and the discovery of that video on the Ring Neighbor app, Savannah has just released a heartbreaking, a poignant video. Let's watch. She accompanies this with music, and there you see Nancy Guthrie with her little girls in her youth. That's Savannah and her sister Annie. There's a still including Brother Cameron.
This is outside, we believe, the very porch where she was led out of the home, leaving behind blood drops. I believe I know why Savannah released this. Number one, her heart is breaking, breaking. And she's going through all of these videos and photos of her mom praying desperately. Her mom is still alive and we brought home soon. Fitzgibbons, I think there's another reason she released it.
Yeah, I mean, this is an incredibly emotional and humanizing video. You know, this is going to go like wildfire across the country. This is going to keep folks, as you were talking about earlier in the show, keep people inspired to persevere in this case.
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Chapter 7: How are video and surveillance contributing to the investigation?
I did notice that in the photos comparison when you showed him up. I'm like, where's the gun and where's the backpack? So where is this later on after he's gotten into the house?
Put him up. Iker.
Yes, ma'am.
You noticed it, but you just wanted to keep a special secret, not say anything about it. Whatever. You noticed it.
The FBI keeps a lot of secrets.
Yeah.
Believe it. So what do you make of it? The backpack's not there and the gun's not there.
Right. So is this a later time frame? Did he already been in the house? Now he's moving things around, maybe walking her to a car or something like that and doesn't need the gun and the backpack anymore?
He's not walking her anywhere. He's on his way walking back in. Look at the picture. Where's the gun? Where's the backpack? Let's analyze it. Where did he put it? What else could it be?
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