Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing this as roofers, electricians, HVAC workers under the microscope. And tonight, why was Nancy Guthrie's back door propped open? This as a Pima County Sheriff's deputy arrested for kidnap in the same jurisdiction as Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped.
The FBI tonight looking for sat images, satellite images. Yes, they've been used in the past. Will they emerge as key evidence? Also tonight, a vehicle of interest. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
Chapter 2: What happened to Nancy Guthrie's mother?
This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Why was the back door propped open?
It confirms the initial reports that entry was initially gamed through the rear of the residence.
Yet we know Mrs. Guthrie went out the front door because that was her blood. Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. We are learning that roofers, electricians, HVAC workers are now under the microscope in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. What's happening?
Well, Nancy, one thing that has been learned is that there were a number of individuals that had legitimate access to Nancy Guthrie's home. In particular, there was an electrician, at least one, maybe more, that was there to replace an electrical panel.
Chapter 3: Why was Nancy Guthrie's back door propped open?
That was a big undertaking and required multiple days and work orders. That was leading up to the day she was kidnapped. We've got HVAC workers that were also reportedly doing service maintenance work on her HVAC system in the home in the weeks leading up to her disappearance on February 1st.
These are all legitimate people, reportedly, that were there and are now being tracked back by investigators, each individual person.
This reference at 12 News put up Dave Mack. What do you mean they were all legitimate people? Do you know who was on the team of roofers working on her house? Do you know they were all legitimate? Were they day laborers that got picked up in the parking lot of the grocery store? You don't know that. Why did you say that?
I said legitimate because there were legitimate reasons for these people to be there. We don't know who they are. We don't have their names. And hey, a day laborer could have been picked up to do work that day.
Chapter 4: How is the FBI using satellite images in this case?
We don't know. We just know that there were legitimate work orders in place for the work being done, not the individuals.
Dave Mack, Dave Mack, an 84-year-old mother-grandmother is missing. Words matter. Words matter. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us, Director of Operations, USPA, Nationwide Security. I can't say it enough. He leads a team of investigators around the world finding and extracting missing people, including extractions from Mexico. former Marine Iraqi War vet.
Brian, I would expect this is SOP. I would be surprised if they didn't start. Well, not Nanos, not Nanos, but the FBI didn't start looking at the HVACs, the electricians, the roofers. Day one, we've heard about landscapers and pool guys, but now we're hearing specifically about HVAC workers.
Yeah, exactly. And that search has expanded to anybody doing work inside of Mrs. Guthrie's house and in the, I would say, important to remember, and in the neighboring properties. These are gonna be HVAC technicians, electricians, general contractors, any type of repair work being done.
The FBI will be meticulously going through those work orders, the dates, the times that those work orders were completed, and then most importantly, who was there on site and who has information about those people and getting an interview with them.
Scott Eicher, founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, CAST, former FBI agent before that, former homicide, Norfolk, Virginia, 20, 12 years now with precision cellular analysis experts. Iker, don't you think the FBI zoomed in the moment they got there and started looking at, well, we know looking at pool guys and looking at landscapers, but now HVAC workers.
We also know they looked at electricians, but now we're learning more about roofers and HVAC workers. Why?
Well, that's part of the process of when we go out and there's a crime scene, we're going to do a neighborhood canvas. That's not just talking to the neighbors. That's also figuring out who was normally in that area and who was there doing work or who was just visiting family in the area. You don't just... narrow it down to people that live there.
It's everybody that could have been in that area at the time the crime occurred and prior to the time occurring. So the workers there are definitely people that we, when I was in the FBI, we'd be tracking down and interviewing and validating their reasons to be there and where they were on the night of the crime.
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Chapter 5: What role do HVAC and electrical workers play in the investigation?
I can't tell you the number of cases that I have worked that it's turned out that not to disparage construction workers, I'm not saying these people are bad people in any way, but I have had a lot of cases where it's been a construction worker, someone that, as Dave Mack said, had legitimate access to the house, but performed a terrible act on a person living there.
And that does have me concerned that perhaps one of these people who had this access to the house, then locked the door, put something in it so it didn't close completely because they were planning on coming back later that night to kidnap Ms. Guthrie.
So roofers, electricians, HVAC workers, get in line. You're getting a buckle swab. It's really not hard. Just like Susanna Ryan's telling you, it's like a long Q-tip. And they just stick it in your mouth and swirl it around. They don't let you do it in a forensic buckle swab like you would take your own COVID test by sticking the Q-tip up your nose.
No, they do it to make sure it's an accurate test. Very easy. In the time we've talked about it, we could have done maybe three or four buckle swabs. Now, next. A Pima County Sheriff's deputy arrested for kidnap of a female in this jurisdiction? Dave Mack, hit me.
Nancy, 22-year-old Travis Reynolds is a deputy or former deputy with Pima County, and he is accused of transporting a suspect. And during this transporting the suspect to jail, Travis Reynolds commented on her hotness, referring to her as a MILF and suggesting that he... Hold on.
Please stop. I've never heard it stated quite like that, Dave Mack. Did you say... the Pima County Sheriff Deputy commented on her hotness. Her hotness. Is that what you said?
Yes.
Okay, go ahead. He commented on her hotness. That's not a felony. Keep going.
And suggested that he could help. No, I'm frank because of what it suggests, Nancy. He suggests he could actually help her case if they just popped over to a local hotel.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of the ransom notes received?
Oh, really? I saw it in the image. I saw it in the image there, Nancy. Now, maybe they came back later and collected it, but they didn't collect it in the moment. And let me tell you one other thing, if you like that.
No, they didn't. It's probably still sitting there, Joe Scott. That's why I want it explored.
Well, yeah, I wanted to explore too. And, you know, I'm more than happy to go teach classes for these people because obviously they skipped over the day where we talk about securing and collecting evidence because they didn't in that first pass that they did. Now, I don't know who showed up that 36 hours later. I hope they had the good sense to collect it.
I hope they had the good sense to collect everything inside of that door, Nancy, and anything else that's on that surface in that house. Because let me tell you something, the clock is ticking. It has been ticking now. for many, many weeks. And they missed something initially here that is, this guy is stomping all over that rug. Put him back up. Show the video of him walking up.
He's walking up to that. He's putting his feet down there in the Nest camera video that we're looking at, Nancy. You know, that's a pretty significant piece of evidence because not only do we have blood deposition on the surrounding area and you can't see it on that rug, gee, I wonder why, because it's black.
You would have to have some kind of contrast medium to be able to show it up right there. And then I guarantee you dollars to donuts, there's blood deposition. On that doormat right there, and God only knows what's inside of the house.
Like you said, in the receiving area, if there is a carpeted space in there, if there's a welcome mat where you wipe your feet and all that sort of thing, or even a runner, you think about that, well, you can have blood deposition there as well. So it draws into question for me from a forensic standpoint. Is there going to be value here?
Because once you do not secure the scene, then all bets are off. You're going to have the lawyers that are going to come in and say, well, anybody could have come up to that location after this and could have planted anything, or it could have been destroyed, or it could have been altered. This is a train wreck, Nancy. Pure and simple. Pure and simple when you look at this.
You were seeing video earlier from our friends at Fox News, and I want to point out The reason Joe Scott Morgan and I are angry and upset tonight is because we see errors. We see mishandling of the crime scene. We see possibilities that may very well still exist that could give us clues, not just clues, evidence as to who took Nancy Guthrie. And we're going to go down swinging, fighting.
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Chapter 7: How does blockchain analysis aid in the investigation?
But how do I find it? Show me a path to a maybe, a definite maybe.
This is exactly like the video from the front porch. Remember that Pima County Sheriff said there's nothing there. You've got to follow those breadcrumbs and keep pushing to try to find it. So we got the video. So let's go see what aerial satellites or aerial drones or other stuff that were in the area at the time that the crime occurred. So maybe we will get something there.
You don't leave it to chance. You've got to fight for it and continue pushing to get to the end of and get that evidence.
OK, be honest with me. Would the feds consider this? Would they have already thought of this?
Yes, they would have. I've done it in my cases.
Okay. Back to you, Dave Mack. I want to hear about a vehicle of interest. I'm understanding that it would be a gray... SUV or a gray pickup, a silver or gray SUV and or a silver or gray pickup truck. Is this true? And the reason I'm asking, I'm going somewhere with this. I'm going to a secondary crime scene. That's where I'm going. So tell me what you know about a potential vehicle of interest.
Since the beginning of this investigation, the investigators have been trying to identify vehicles of interest, and they've narrowed it down to two specifically. One, a white van. The other, a gray or silver SUV or pickup truck, as you mentioned. So we're looking at two basic types of vehicles that are believed to have been, possibly,
in the neighborhood that are unaccounted for meaning they don't belong to anyone that lives there or a resident that had a friend in the neighborhood so we're talking about two vehicles that were in the neighborhood that have been drawn down to by investigators as interest now
FBI and Pima County Sheriff's deputies, they searched and towed a gray or silver Range Rover, if you remember that, from the Culver's restaurant about two miles away from the parking lot, two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. We saw that, that happened 13 days into the investigation. We've also seen early on, investigators were at a Circle K gas station on Oracle Road in Tucson.
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Chapter 8: What evidence is being examined in Nancy Guthrie's home?
Forensics expert, founding member, FBI cellular analysis survey team, 12 years, Norfolk, Virginia, PD, homicide, now precision cellular analysis. Scott, thank you for being with us. Think about it. Compare Brian Koberger. He came with a K-bar knife that he ordered on Amazon. He came dressed in clothes to conceal his identity. He was prepared.
He did not need to use a flower pot to open and prop open a door. So what does this tell you about the purpose if, in fact, that report is true?
Well, I think there's several different reasons why they might prop up in the door. One is they're trying to get Nancy out. We've just discussed how hard it would be to move an 84-year-old lady that can't walk on herself. by herself.
So having two gentlemen or two kidnappers grabbing her by the arms or underneath her arms to try to get her out the door, it's much easier to prop open a door to get her out that way.
I'm talking to you about the use of flowerpots.
I understand that, but if you're doing that, you want to prop open the door with whatever's nearby, which makes sense. If it's a back door, you just got a lot of flower pots in the backyard there. Just move one over to prop that door open so you're not messing with the door as you're trying to get her out.
Bob Krieger, what does it tell you if, in fact, this report is true that flowerpots were used to prop the door open? It tells me the perp wasn't prepared and didn't plan for it.
I actually think the opposite of that, Nancy. I think they were planned for it. And propping it open is just a way of keeping it open. But I think if this is true, the initial plan was they were going to walk her out the back door around the back gate that was propped open as well and into a car. Something happened to change that plan.
And that's probably why they went out the front door where you find blood. I know from my experience, whenever we would do a swap war, we'd go into a house. You always want to have a plan of egress. You want to know exactly how you're leaving that house. So they went in one door. You want to go out that same door, get in, get out as quick as you can. Something probably happened.
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