Show notes
Not long ago, a club's membership director was the receptionist at the front desk. As it related to new member acquisition, that person's primary job was to provide and receive, membership applications. In some cases, they may also be asked to provide a club tour. However, the idea of the membership director also acting as a salesperson was not only foreign, it was considered tacky and frowned upon. After all, any club worth its salt should never "sell" memberships. Then the recession happened in 2008 and the private club industry had to adapt. It took time and, later, a pandemic to turn the tables on the downward trend, but as clubs rebounded through the 2010s, some clubs struggled and started to revise their perspective on recruiting new members. Emotionally tethered to their past ideas of exclusivity, prestige, and privilege, some clubs were forced to reinvent themselves. It was during this time that Melissa Hansen entered the private club industry as the Director of Marketing and Membership at Hammock Bay Golf & Country Club. A lifelong learner and networker, Melissa became a member of the Membership Directors of Southwest Florida (MDASF) and launched her career as a membership professional. Today, Melissa is the Director of Marketing and Membership at a private club in Naples, where she has been since 2011. She's also a consultant and educator to membership professionals providing content and Masterclasses to those eager to transform their careers. Melissa routinely fills her classes and online training sessions with helpful content geared towards people entering the industry as well as those who are more seasoned. Episode Highlights 2:38 - What inspired Melissa to start her consulting practice 5:50 - How the membership director role has changed over the years 8:13 - Prioritizing marketing tactics in the digital age 9:36 - Using chat messages on club websites 12:38 - Make it easy for people to learn about your club 15:46 - Managing the current workload of a membership director while building for the future 16:05 - The value of a CRM (customer relationship management) platform 18:55 - How Melissa uses HubSpot to improve efficiency 19:59 - The membership director needs to be the sales person 21:28 - Social media as part of a club's marketing strategy 24:43 - Creating FOMO (fear of missing out) in prospective members 28:00 - Important skills to be a membership director today 30:27 - The value of investing in your people Ed Heil [00:00:00] You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. [00:00:13] Marketing and communications isn't what it used to be in the private club industry. And if you do what you've always done, you get what you always got. Which isn't too bad for clubs that never worry about driving membership. But for most clubs, driving new members is an ongoing concern. Melissa Hansen is a consultant for membership directors and an evangelist for digital marketing. In this episode, Melissa tells us why change is needed and what club leaders need to know to set a course for long term membership growth. Ed Heil [00:00:44] Well, in our world, it's StoryTeller. Every club should have a Melissa Hansen. She's a membership director. First of all, she's someone who embraces technology to help her do her job better. She cares passionately about her members and her club. She juggles a million things at one time and magically, somehow, she finds time to spend with her family. Now it gets better. Melissa also takes time to help other membership directors grow and learn with her mastermind classes. Her passion is to help them become better membership professionals as well. If you're interested, you can learn more about Melissa's Mastermind classes at Melissahansen.com, and we'll plug that again later at the end of the this episode. But Melissa and I connected recently. We had a terrific conversation about the changing responsibilities of membership directors and the many aspects this job has here in the 21st century. Put it this way, as you know, it isn't the same job it was 20 years ago, and it's actually a job that today transcends all business, not just the club industry, but you got to want to learn. And Melissa has the knowledge, the desire and the platform to teach. Melissa, thanks so much for joining me today. Melissa Hansen [00:02:03] I am so excited. I have been such a fan of your podcast for the longest time, so I'm very excited to be here. Ed Heil [00:02:10] Oh, you're very nice. The old joke is you're the one, it's been it's been a lot of fun to get to know you and spend some time with you. And in Naples at the MDASF. Right. And, seminar and, really, really cool. For people who are not as familiar with you in your work, can you give me a little background about, like, how how did you start your consulting practice? Like what inspired you to do that? Melissa Hansen [00:02:38] Yeah. So, I would definitely say that. So a couple of years back, I was the president of the organization, the membership directors of Southwest Florida, and I was on the board for about seven years. And I think we're we're lucky in that organization because we really have such a big group. There's now about 100, people in our direct area that are part of that association. [00:03:03]And through the seven years, really what I saw and I felt was not only the opportunity to get to know so many membership and marketing professionals in the area, but I was also meeting so many of the general managers, and what we would see was they would have a new hire on board, and there was really kind of a need for, to educate that membership professional. And so I just kind of decided to jump in, I've always been like an education junkie, and I've always, you know, always continued to educate myself, you know, after graduating from college, I always want to know the latest and the greatest. And, I really what I was trying to do was to take what I know and share it, you know, with the people that that I worked with that were in my role and really it just kind of spurred from there. [51.5s] We it first started local and now it's gone national. I work with over about 350 clubs, throughout the country. Ed Heil [00:04:04] Wow. And yet you're also a membership director. How do you have time to do all this stuff? And you're a mom? Melissa Hansen [00:04:13] I mean, there definitely aren't enough hours in the day. I'm not going to lie with you. You know, it's not easy. But I think at the end of the day, what it comes down to is it's my passion. Membership and marketing and the private club industry is my everything, and I just can't turn my brain off. Ed Heil [00:04:31] You've got so many educational opportunities for for your students. What do you, how do you hope they benefit the most? Melissa Hansen [00:04:39] I really just serve to inspire them. And just I love doing these. We do kind of discovery calls before we get started on a one on one and really kind of go through maybe a challenge or two that they're having at their club. And I think that after so many years of being in the industry that you've just you've tested it all right, you realize that there's things that work and things that don't work. And so I really just say, okay, this is your challenge. These are three things that worked for me. These are three things that have worked for other students at other clubs. Let's go ahead and try implementing these at yours and and helping you get through this challenge. Ed Heil [00:05:19] Yeah. Got it. The, there has been so much change. And, you know, in the time that you've been in the industry and, and really, you know, dare say that after 2010 there's been, you know, quite a bit of change with so much digital, presence in private clubs. What do you think, are some of the biggest changes? You've seen in the last 15 years and how those affected the membership director role. Melissa Hansen [00:05:50] Yeah, there there definitely been a lot of changes. I think as you mentioned, you know, the customer, the digital customer journey has been the thing that has changed so much and the way that our members and prospective members, really kind of, you know, expect to be communicated with, you know, 15 years ago as a membership professional, we might be pumping out a quarterly newsletter, or we might be creating a flyer, to promote an event. But now, as a membership professional, we are in charge of not only developing the website, but continuously keeping it updated. We are in charge of social media. We are charge of lead management and managing a CRM system. You know, our clubs have mobile apps and we're using push notifications and all that. Technology has just evolved so rapidly, and it is up to us as membership and marketing professionals to really continue to be educated and learn how to grow with those products. Ed Heil [00:06:57] You know, you say that and, you know, and I, I love the the willingness to say it's our responsibility. But that's a lot of stuff. I mean, is it how realistic is it if if, you know, if I'm a general manager listening to this, this is like our opportunity to say like, is it realistic to say you got to know all this stuff and you know, your newsletters and all the other things? Is it is it realistic, do you think? Melissa Hansen [00:07:24] I mean, I think it is essential. I think it is essential to be a thriving club, you know, a waitlisted club, you know, a club where you are, where you need to be. Do I think that everything has to be implemented at once or by one person? No. I mean, I'm at my club, a department of one. You know, I work with so many companies and vendors behind the scenes that get me to where I am. Ed Heil [00:07:55] How do you do it? I mean, you're you're a team of one. And yet, I mean, there are so many things. How do you determine, you know, what to implement? When is there and is there, an approach to that that you've seen that works across the board, or how do you advise people in that way? Melissa Hansen [00:08:13] I would definitely say, you know, [00:08:14]focus on on one thing at a time and, you know, get that under your belt for, you know, six months or so. For example, I like to I love to connect with other, you know, experts in the industry and see, you know, especially technology gurus and see what's working for them. [16.3s] And, one of the things that had come about for me about a year ago, was implementing this online chat on the website, and I was like, no way, no way am I going to implement this live chat where basically I have to respond when a right away when anyone asks me a question like, I'm doing a million things, I'm walking around the building, I'm part of tournaments, how will I be able to do that? But I decided, you know what? I'm going to give it a go. And worst case scenario, we can turn it off. And that has been one of the biggest tools in my toolbox over the past year. Literally converting members at $100,000, memberships that have never stepped foot in the club through chat, through live chat. Ed Heil [00:09:18] Interesting. So just to break that down a little bit, I mean, "A" that's awesome. That's amazing. Just maybe how do you manage it like, you know, do you have like notifications going to your phone and while you're walking around you like how does that work? Melissa Hansen [00:09:36] Exactly. So the notifications go to your phone. We always have our phones next to us. I mean, that's just how it is. So it comes in just like a text message. We can toggle it off. So when I'm heading home and getting ready for my son's baseball game, you know, I'm not listening to or replying to online chat, so I toggle it off, you know, in the evening or when I'm not available. And that's, I think, the biggest misconception that I wasn't aware of before I dove into it. But when I am available, when I am making my phone or I am next to my computer, it's just been such a phenomenal resource for us. Ed Heil [00:10:11] So, this is a little bit of a tangent, and if you'll just bear with me a little bit, I'm I'm really interested to hear your perspective on that because, you know, go back five years ago and the idea of using chat in a private club just felt really cold and informal. And why would you do that? And there I'm sure you talked to membership directors who might say, I would rather try to go for that tour and bring them in, and that's going to be a barrier like it seems. Count. Well, I get it. And yet it probably feels very counter intuitive to a lot of membership directors who prefer to, you know. Have people come on site for a tour? Melissa Hansen [00:10:52] Definitely. I mean, [00:10:53]I think at the end of the day, Ed, like as membership professionals, we need to be the face of our club, okay. We, you know, biggest pet peeve of mine that I posted on LinkedIn recently is when I go to the membership pages of these club websites and it's just like, contact our membership department. Who am I contacting? You know, I want to see what the membership professional looks like. I want to know their name. You know, I want to buy one them. I want to, you know, this is about to be my second family. I'm joining a club. This is my lifestyle. I want to connect with someone. And so I truly feel that that the online chat has just allowed me another opportunity to put my face in front of my club and just allow me to, to connect with these prospects. [44.4s] Ed Heil [00:11:39] What is the in your opinion? What is that mind shift of, the membership, maybe not the membership professional. It might be the general manager, it might be the board members. But what is a shift that needs to occur to say, hey, this website, I will see if I try to turn this away when people come to learn more about us, this is not about what information we want to share. It's really about how can you provide that visitor the information they're looking for? You know what I mean? It's, I think historically, for a lot of clubs, there's been this idea of like, no, no, no, we're very exclusive. If you want to come, you'll play by our rules. Rather than saying, how do we make it easier for people to learn more about what club life is like at our club? Melissa Hansen [00:12:38] That is so good. [00:12:40]I feel like that that that has been such a shift. And if you're not shifting with the change, of that kind of vibe at your club, I think that you are missing out. [11.0s] I think that if you just take, for example, the last time you went to purchase a card, you know, which is a high end purchase. You were doing your research online before you ever stepped foot into XYZ dealership. And I just remember the last time that I was doing it, I had narrowed down my search to to three different cars, and it was the online chat and the sales person that was following up with me that was answering my specific questions about if this would be the right vehicle for my family. That ultimately swayed me to purchase that vehicle over the other that were in my top three, and I feel like it is so similar in the private club journey. At the end of the day, our buyers are all in a different point of their buying journey, right? Some of them are just starting this journey. They might be, you know, becoming a member of a club for the very first time. And they just might want to collect some information. Some of them might be ready to schedule a tour, but, you know, they've been a member of a private club. Maybe they've played here as a guest. They're ready to schedule a tour in their, you know, a little bit more of a hot lead, and some of them might be able to, to purchase right away. And I just think that you as a club and you as a, you know, membership professional, you truly need to be able to meet them wherever they are in their journey. Ed Heil [00:14:16] Yeah. And this idea that, because you are accessible and because you make it easy for someone to learn about your club doesn't mean that you can't be exclusive like this whole idea, right? It is as a as a club, you can still be just as selective or selective as you choose to be about the members that become members of the club. Melissa Hansen [00:14:40] Absolutely. Absolutely. Ed Heil [00:14:42] I want to go back, though, to, something that we were talking about a couple of minutes ago. We went off on a tangent, which is the implementation, and we're talking about the fact that you don't necessarily have to do everything at once. If you're a membership director looking to implement change. You picked certain things. And that's when we started talking about chat and using chat bots. And so with that, how do you in your experience and conversations you have, how do you recommend membership directors approach those conversations with their GM or, you know, who's also reporting to a board that in some cases want things to happen really fast. And as we all know, board members and committee members, you know, different clubs will, you know, fly off the handle with an idea and say, hey, we should do this. We should do this. How does a membership director in this day and age manage that kind of stuff while trying to set priorities? Melissa Hansen [00:15:46] Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely tough because like you're saying, everyone comes kind of like from a their personal side of it, right? That they think that this would this is the next best thing that they should implement. But at the end of the day, all of our clubs, we have budgets, right. We most of us have marketing budgets. And oftentimes some of the things that we're looking to implement may not have been budgeted for that year. And it might be something that we have to plan for, for the future. You know, I think, Ed, I know that you are such a huge advocate for, for CRM systems. And I know that you and I, we use we're both lovers of HubSpot. But I would say that that is like, the number one mistake that I see in clubs is the lack of utilization of a, of a good CRM system, because if you're starting with a good CRM system and you are able to start to report these different tactics that you are implementing these different marketing tactics, then you can go to your board and say, you know, we implemented this gated content piece and we received this many qualified leads and this many qualified leads ended up turning to this many sales. But without having the backbone of a something like a CRM system, I really think you're missing the boat on on all things marketing. Ed Heil [00:17:07] Yeah. So that idea of being able to say to whether it's your GM or whether it's, committee chair or something like that, to be able to say, hey, we're actually tracking this, we're implementing this part, we're tracking the results, and then we'll be able to make better decisions about other things. But right now, this is what we're focusing on. And we have real data as opposed to just like chasing down 10 million things, not tracking a darn thing and going, I don't know what I'm doing. You know, it's because even if you do kind of know what you're doing without good data, it's hard to it's hard to go to anyone with any real explanation. Melissa Hansen [00:17:45] Exactly. I mean, I think at the end of the day, those are what the boards and committees are looking for. They want the data. You know, if you're going to be spending 5 to $10,000 on some sort of campaign or implementing something new or a new website or or whatever it is, we need the numbers to be able to justify that and to back that up. Ed Heil [00:18:05] Let's go down the, the road where you started with HubSpot. And yes, you know, in full disclosure, we are HubSpot partners, and I know you're a, user as well, but I think you from a bigger, more broad perspective of technology and we, you know, talking about chatbot, it's the same thing. And, and as we discuss membership directors, more and more are is being asked of them in their roles. And I know that a membership director I spoke with recently, I just said, if you leverage more technology, it will help you be more efficient in your job. And yet that seems to be you know what always blows me away, Melissa, is that there are so many board members who are successful business people probably use these tools, but they don't look at their club and say, how do we become more efficient that way? But I mean, that's a huge part of this, isn't it? Melissa Hansen [00:18:55] Definitely. I mean, I definitely have to say that I think the clubs are a little bit behind the times when it comes to implementing. I mean, don't you agree when it comes to. Totally. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I just think it's, essential. I, I'm a HubSpot user. I spend my day in HubSpot. I think, you know, one of the things I love most is that, you know, all of the clubs were on board now with getting these, online inquiries. And. Right, so our online inquiries are what we live for. Those are prospective members. That's how everything gets started. But so oftentimes we go through a process of, you know, providing them with the information, potentially getting them in for a tour. And then there's not really, too much follow up after that. And again, as a department of one or even two and just having your hand in so many different things, you need to be able to rely on tools like that to assist you. And, you know, these different touch points that that our prospective members need. Ed Heil [00:19:59] How important do you think it is that membership directors today are, you know, have a big part of them that's kind of like a salesperson. I mean, they've always been kind of like salesperson, right? But like to be able to use some of these tools is also. You know. Melissa Hansen [00:20:15] Yeah. I mean it's huge. I at the end of the day. I always say we are the storytellers. We are the cheerleaders. And and that that's what turns into our sales. And if we, we can bring our prospective members to the club when it is, you know, the most vibrant and the most happening, and we can show them, you know, what they're missing out on. If they don't join that, at the end of the day, it is what's really going to create that sale. Ed Heil [00:20:41] How have you seen? Just in your, there are a lot of a lot of people out there that, you know, different people who have campaigns for membership drives and things like that. How have you been able to see this convergence of, like, member referrals and technology and social media and digital like, have you been able to see them come together? And I'll just give you a little bit more texture around it, which is the, use of social media, you know, and, do you I mean, do they all do they interact differently, today than they used to? Me. Member referrals have always been a great source for new member prospects. But how do you see all those things aiding that? You know how that works today. You know what I mean? Melissa Hansen [00:21:28] Yeah, definitely. You know, social media is one of my, my favorite things to talk about. And there's just so many clubs that have jumped on board with it and they get it. And I think that now that user generated content. So you've got your members, they are at the club, they are enjoying the club with their family, their friends, and they start to post their pictures and tag the club. And now the club can share that. Now it's not so much becoming, you know, the club selling to somebody. We're just simply sharing the amazing time that our members are having at the club. And we have just seen that that sharing of that, you know, that user generated content really, really, really thrive, as far as, member referrals go, I actually got a DM from a prospective member on Instagram the other day, and, I had posted something about the reciprocals that, that we enjoy, that we enjoy in Southwest Florida in the summertime, and that the reciprocal access was really what got that prospective member, you know, off being on the edge. And she said, oh, what do you mean? The, you know, reciprocals that, that you guys have. And and she's like, I'm a friend of Mr. and Mrs. Jones and I have been following the club for so long now. We've really been thinking that we want to join. But I didn't know about this program. And she's like, can you tell me about this? And I did. We signed her up. Ed Heil [00:22:58] How do you feel about the clubs that want to lock down the social media and have for members only? Melissa Hansen [00:23:05] I'm not. I'm not a fan of that. Yeah, I get that. [00:23:10]That's honestly the number one question that I, that I get and I get the exclusivity, I get being private again. Our club, we are a waitlisted club. You know, I understand all of that, but I think that everyone wants a bit of a peek inside. Everyone you know, needs to create that. That fear of missing out. And it you don't have to be posting every day. As long as you come up with some sort of schedule and you are consistent with that schedule, people want a little bit of a peek inside. I think. [32.2s] Ed Heil [00:23:43] You know, it's funny because, I did, you know, look at your website. There's a little bit of, you know, you talk a little bit about FOMO, fear of missing out for a lot of people. You just kind of like a joke. Oh, you have bad FOMO. So, yeah, I do, but it is such an important part of, you know, of referrals and things like that. Is it? How is it different today? It seems like FOMO in general for people you know, is so much more intense today, you know, than when it was before social media. You know, it's like you might hear someone on a trip, but now it's like you see them on the trip where they went, where they go to eat, how much fun they're having. Melissa Hansen [00:24:25] I'm booking my kids there. Ed Heil [00:24:27] Yeah, exactly. How real is that, do you think in, you know, as a membership director and really trying to create that, especially if you're not on a waitlist, if you are trying to create, you know, maybe a different narrative about your club? I'm guessing you probably all about that. Melissa Hansen [00:24:43] Yeah, [00:24:44]I'm definitely all about FOMO is real. I mean, it is a real thing. It's a bit scary. I think the way that it's taken off so much, you know, with social media over the past couple of years. But, you know, if, if when you see your friends and your family having fun, it's something with inside our souls that we want to be part of that too. And we see it a lot, you know, especially with the clubs that that are family clubs. [29.7s] And, you know, you've got the families that are posting the, fathered out their dances or the Taylor Swift event, which has been so popular around the country. And, you know, if you're not part of that, then you feel like your, your children aren't getting the experience that you want them to have. Ed Heil [00:25:33] Yeah, for sure. And that and that's important to parents, right. What are you, in the conversations that you have with your students and people you're networking with, what are the biggest challenges membership directors are facing today? Do you think. Melissa Hansen [00:25:49] It's a great question? [00:25:51]So I would say the biggest challenge is definitely, the challenge of onboarding their new members. That's become a really hot topic, over the past couple of years, because what we saw in the membership directors role is that everybody was doing such a great job, you know, replying to prospective members, getting them in for the tour and then making that sale. But then we were really missing the mark on integrating that member into the club 100%. And we just really realized that, you know, proper programming needs to be in place, proper communication and, you know, continuing to have, you know, funnels of communication that are set up, you know, at least for the first 90 days to six months. [43.5s] But getting that member integrated in the club, it's a challenge, especially if you are a department of one. You know, I think a lot of times the membership director might be the cheerleader, but the whole entire team in the club might not all be on board as much as they are. So I think, you know, integrating that new member for, for retention, you know, purposes is a challenge. Ed Heil [00:26:58] I mean, that's a big cost, right? Without it, it's, you know, it could make retention. You could maybe not necessarily more difficult, but there's there's a gap now in their, in their experience. Is that right? Melissa Hansen [00:27:11] Definitely. I mean, you know, we have to be able to justify those dues that we're spending every year. Ed Heil [00:27:18] Yeah, absolutely. Just, I'd love to get your thoughts on, what you see as being some of the most important skills that a membership director has today, knowing that, like, hey, you might be listening to this podcast, and if you're a GM, maybe your membership director is like, I shouldn't say this like, but hasn't had the experience that we're talking about, but you believe in them and you want to develop them. Or maybe you're a membership director listening to this and gosh, I've never I don't, you know, they're Google and CRM to see what that stands for. What do you what are the most important skills do you think that a membership director should have in this job to be successful? Melissa Hansen [00:28:00] Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, the ability to adapt and grow is the number one most important thing when it comes to this role. And if you don't know what a CRM system you are googling it, that is 100% okay. It's okay, you know, to start somewhere. And I think, being being an innovator, you know, being willing to learn and there's different ways that we can learn. I feel like, you know, there's so many online tools now. There's conferences, but we can simply learn from, you know, reaching out to our colleagues and just going to lunch with them and seeing what they're doing at their club. And I think that, you know, you and I were together recently, at the conference at Bonita Bay and I think, you know, just going there and seeing how they do things. I brought so many ideas back to my club. But I have to continue to be in that innovative mindset and be the cheerleader that wants to do that when everybody's ready to, you know, leave for vacation and in the off season. So I would say, you know, definitely those are skills that, that you need to portray in the role. Ed Heil [00:29:09] Yeah. So much about that adaptability, right. I mean, if you don't have a willingness to learn and to grow and like, I think what you're seeing as well with the CRM stuff, it's like and being okay, saying, I don't know that today, but I'm going to learn it. That's, you know, that's such a huge part of it because a lot of those people are still learning, you know, and, and and that's totally fine. Melissa Hansen [00:29:31] I'm still learning. Ed Heil [00:29:33] We all are. Right? I mean, hey, one of our core values is driven to mastery. And it's that idea that you're always learning and just, you know, always feel like it's okay if you don't know it. As long as you have that drive to learn and drive to master it, then that's a good thing. How if for a word, if you just think about, you know, club leaders in general, what would you ask of them to to keep in mind as it relates to, you know, development of their people and, you know, because, hey, education costs money. Networking, where so many people in your world learn it just from talking to other membership directors. What would your message be to club leaders who are a little bit reticent to maybe invest in some of the whether it's technology or training for people, why is it so important, do you think? Melissa Hansen [00:30:27] I think investing in your people, first and foremost, is the most important thing. Before you're doing the technology or any of that, invest in your people and and give them the opportunity to learn and grow from the people that are doing it right. You know, again, just such an advocate of continuing education and going to these conferences, like you mentioned, PCMA, CMAA, you know, I'm attending the inbound conference by HubSpot, which I, I learned so much from, but giving them that opportunity to get out side of the club, you know, expand their mindset. And then, most importantly, take these ideas, ask the membership professional to come back to your staff meeting. And, you know, we expect you to present to us five things that you think that we should implement at the club. And let's all talk to that, you know, talk about them as a whole and as a team. That I just think is is key. That's, that's the most important thing. And then just being in that spot where you have management and you have your board supporting your growth as an employee, that is just everything. Ed Heil [00:31:40] Yeah. And if the club doesn't get behind it, invest in yourself, right. Invest in your own career and development as a professional. Melissa Hansen [00:31:47] Definitely. Ed Heil [00:31:48] Yeah. Melissa, this is great. How can people learn more about you and your work as a consultant? Melissa Hansen [00:31:54] Yeah, they can certainly go to my website, which is just Melissahansen.com. I'm really loud on LinkedIn. Melissa Hanson and, also, anybody can feel free to email me, [email protected]. Ed Heil [00:32:11] Awesome. Melissa, thanks so much for spending time with me today and sharing your perspective. And I know it's so valuable for. For the people that you already work with, and hopefully there's some people out there that will, that will reach out as well. And, and, and look to you for more advice. Melissa Hansen [00:32:26] I appreciate you and thank you for the time. Ed Heil [00:32:29] All right, Melissa, we'll see you soon. Melissa Hansen [00:32:31] All right. Sounds good. Ed Heil [00:32:36] And thank you for listening. If you find this podcast helpful. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.