Show notes
The words Selling and Private Club Membership typically do not go hand-in-hand. In fact, most Membership Directors, wouldn't be caught dead saying they "sell private club memberships". People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Master Connection Associates, Cindy Novotny, is with me in this episode to talk about SALES processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Episode Highlights 4:08 - How sales and marketing applies to the private clube and hospitality industries. 5:42 - The impact of the pandemic on private clubs 7:20 - Now is the time to train your team 9:51 - You're selling experiences 15:08 - Where clubs are struggling today with their sales and marketing 17:44 - Where to start with training your team 19:46 - Sales is no longer a bad word in the hospitality industry 22:21 - Selling is not cold calling 25:45 - The pandemic made some club leaders "cocky" 28:43 - The best follow up methods for prospects 33:07 - Phone calls or email follow ups? Ed Heil [00:00:00] You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Ed Heil [00:00:13] The word selling, and private club membership typically don't go hand in hand. In fact, most membership directors wouldn't be caught dead saying they sell private club memberships. People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Master Connection Associates, Cindy Novotny is with me in this episode to talk about sales processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Ed Heil [00:00:47] Thanks for joining me today. As I mentioned in the intro, you usually will not hear membership professionals in the private club industry talk about quote unquote selling memberships. It sounds tacky. It lowers perceived value, and the stature of the club is overall cheapened when you use words like that. Typically when you're talking about new member acquisition. But there's a difference between saying you sell club memberships and having proven sales processes in place to drive new member inquiries. So with 50% of the clubs in the country enjoying a new member waitlist. Why does this matter? You might ask yourself, well, we know it won't last forever, right? And with most clubs financially stable today, now is the time to invest. And we know that most would agree with this, especially the healthy clubs, because they're making considerable capital improvements to increase the value of the club and make it, and to invest more in their club. So clubs have all been through the ups and downs of the economy with rising and falling membership initiation fees. And you know that that's not good for your brand. But by building strong processes, investing in technology to improve efficiency and reporting, and even redefining the role of the membership team and membership director, your club can be better equipped to weather the storm that you know is coming. Ed Heil [00:02:17] So Cindy Novotny joins me in this episode as we dive into some of the issues clubs have and some recommendations she has for club leaders. Now, she is bold, she's direct, and she looks at the industry extremely realistically from a business and sales perspective, which in this day and age, it's changed so much through the years with technology and how people shop and how people buy. So we caught up earlier this year, and I was able to pin her down for a half hour while she is traveling the globe, and we had this conversation. Cindy, thanks so much for joining us today. Cindy Novotny [00:02:51] Absolutely. I am thrilled to be with you. This is fantastic. Ed Heil [00:02:55] Well my gosh. All right. So if you're listening to this you don't know how long. I mean it's been years. I think it was actually pre-pandemic when we were you know, I was, you know, talking to you and then to lefty and then we ran into each other at PCMA in Savannah. Yes, I think a year and a half ago or something like that. So, man, I'm just glad to catch up with you finally. Cindy Novotny [00:03:16] Absolutely. I mean, I just I think everything you're doing is so great. And, the fact that I am such a road warrior living on the road, jumping from place to place, I'm so glad we have this opportunity. Ed Heil [00:03:28] The road warriors and understatement. I think you would probably agree for the way. The way it's been going for you. So. Well, let's jump into it. You know, for for the listener who maybe hasn't had the opportunity to be part of your training or heard you speak, let's help help people understand the connection between, you know, the hospitality industry. And if you think about that from the perspective of like hotels, resorts and things like that, private clubs are also very much part of the hospitality industry. But how do you see those, the two worlds, maybe if you think about hotels, resorts and that sort of part of hospitality connecting from a sales and marketing perspective or otherwise with private clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:04:08] Well, it's huge. And I, I grew up in an industry that was I worked for private dining clubs, in Chicago, in New York and at a very young age learning, oh, wow, this is kind of cool. And people pay a membership to just come and have dinner. And then I recognize that it's really all about the experience, and it's all about what somebody wants to feel like. Then, as I continued in the hospitality industry, crossing over into hotels and resorts and now private engagement and jets, we do a lot of work, as you know, in private clubs on sales, training and sometimes sales is like, oh, well, we don't have to sell because we're a private club and you know everybody. We've got a list of people waiting to get in. And I always back up and say, yeah, you have a list of people waiting to get in right now. But there was a time when you were fighting to get members because we compete with so many other experiences. It's not just like we're competing private club to private club, we're competing private club membership to a second home or a yacht or something like that. Ed Heil [00:05:13] Let's talk about that. And, because I'm, I'm interested first in your take on that change, that shift in, in what you're seeing out there from the recognition of your clients as it relates to, hey, we you know, we can't just wait for people to walk in the door. We actually have to have more of a process. Are you seeing just how much greater awareness are you seeing around that? Or is it is it been slow, is have been fast, especially with the pandemic being so good for so many clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:05:42] Yeah. I mean, as I say, I can't even say the word C-O-V-I-D. Right? I cannot. But the one thing there was two things that happened. One is zooms and calls and teams. That's now status normal. When you talk to clients, getting them on a call face to face. Okay. That's because of the pandemic. The second is golf. Even golf clubs because we work with lots of golf clubs. Prior to the pandemic, the younger generation, it was dipping down. They weren't. It's like it's I don't want to go to my dad's club and I don't want to get married at my grandpa's club. And there was a lot of that kind of slowdown. And what I saw happen is that even I belong to a private club in Codo de Caza in California, and then also in Cedar Rapids, a private club. But I saw all of a sudden, like, outdoors. Oh my gosh, I don't want to be like, I don't want to be held back. I can't do things where private clubs were giving people the ability to get out on the golf courses, the fresh air, play tennis, pickleball, all these things. And because the private dining there was sometimes less. It was it like jams of people. So now that has taken the trajectory right up. I mean, that that's why so many people are seeing waiting list to get into those clubs, right? Ed Heil [00:07:02] You know, in many ways, because of this lack of maybe pressure, it seems like this is the time for private clubs. If they're thinking they they need to get their membership directors trained and sales that this is the time to do that. Cindy Novotny [00:07:20] Oh right. And and by the way, if you can sell, you'll always have a job. Let me just say that. All right. Transactional order taking will be replaced is being replaced by AI. So if you're just sitting back and managing your membership, what are you doing? I mean, there's a there's a new member behind every member. There's a new event, a new party, a corporate event. There's so much for that incremental revenue into a club where they can have their company sponsor dinners. And so you have to work your existing membership to be able to get that. But more importantly is there's a lot of competition now. There are private hotels, membership only. There are so many more private city clubs, so many more private bars and fun, cool places that unless you're a member, you can't even get in. You've got to know somebody who knows somebody. And because of that, that is starting to dilute some of the traditional clubs where people go, you know what? I'm not going to join. I'm not going to be a member of this club anymore because I actually don't live in the city anymore. I moved out to the suburbs. So I'm, I'm, I'm going to get rid of being a part of this athletic club or this dining club, and I'm going to move out to the suburbs. Secondly, I'm going to rid of my golf membership because do we really need that is a lot of money. I mean, you know, we have to force ourselves to make sure we every quarter get our dining, you know, minimum. Right. And so what happens is a lot of people have that same thought. So if you're not working it to keep that pipeline full, the people just like me now, we haven't canceled our club. But I could say, you know what, I don't even. Why do I even bother? So that's why you have to keep your grit, your nose to the grindstone, a new one, a new one, a new one all the time. Even those that have waiting lists. Ed Heil [00:09:12] Yeah. Interesting. You know. Yeah. There's so many things in there. Let's let's talk about the, part one. Part of it is just the competition. And you talked about this before, and I've heard other people in other podcasts, interviews that people I've talked to that have said, if you're thinking of your competition as the club down the street, you're missing it. And then, you know, three different people have said, look at what the hospitality industry is doing. If you want to see how to really enhance your presence online, if you really want to see how to, sell experiences, look at what resorts are doing and how they positioned themselves. How do you feel about that? Cindy Novotny [00:09:51] Oh, it's all about that. And most of the clubs that I even work in their social media presence is sad. Sad, I mean, and I think to myself, well, they and they say things like, well we can't really show a members event. I go, you're not showing the member and you're not giving the member's name, but you can show the setup because it's like what we've done. But a backing up to that. You know, I look at hospitality as an experience, hence why 40% of our business is outside of the hotel, club, private dining industry, automotive, you know, medical. And you think, well, how does hospitality relate? Because everyone in business today wants an experience. Okay. Even if you're going to a hospital, you know, it's not the clinical side that we're not messing with. But you don't want to go and feel you're already nervous. You want your your. Registration to get into the hospital. Be nice. You want the billing. So if you think about clubs, private clubs. All right. It's like if you really want to go to a tennis match or a football game because you're so in to the game, to the techniques and to what, you'll watch it from your massive screen at home. Okay, that's it. But if you love the experience of going to a football or a hockey game or a tennis match, you don't want to watch it from your sofa. You want to be in those stands and eating that Dodger Dog and having fun and doing what you do. And that's like a club. If I want to go to a fine dining restaurant, there is 1,000,000 and 1 Michelin star over the top. Cool chefs. I can go anywhere and edit everybody open to the public. We all can go. Ed Heil [00:11:39] Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:11:39] But if you want an experience where they actually know you and they call you by name, and they you bring guests and they, they make your guests feel very special. And there's always that certain thing that's not in the menu, but they make for you. And there's that certain cocktail that they know you like and they make it for you. That is an experience. Okay. Same thing with golf. So, you know, my husband's a big golfer, but he golfs at a public course that is small, but they make you feel like a member because there's very few people and it's gorgeous overlooking Lake Michigan. And he actually at time says, you know, I actually like it here better than even some of the private clubs I'm at. Right. Because so if it's just the game, I can get it anywhere. But the club makes it an experience and you have to be trained to know how to do that. And your social media presence, your online presence has to portray that. Ed Heil [00:12:37] Awesome. So I mean, what I'm hearing you say, well, let me ask. Yes, that's a shift, right? Because there's still a lot of private clubs that believe they're selling the exclusivity. Like you get you get to be a member of this exclusive group. But I mean, what I'm hearing you say is really in many ways, that's not enough anymore. It's not enough to just say we're exclusive. You can't get in now. Cindy Novotny [00:13:03] And by the way. That's okay. But not everyone enjoys that tag line. I love exclusivity all the time too. I like, you know, I'm in. You know, I travel all the time. So you know, obviously United Club is for anybody that wants to pay their money. But because I'm global service and I'm global service for life, I've flown 10 million miles. Even when those clubs, as you know, when you travel, if they're too busy, they start stopping people, people that have paid for a membership but not me. I show my ticket, it says Global Service. I'm let right in. Yeah, I board the plane first. I love the exclusivity of that feel, but. I can also fly another airline and get to the same destination, right? The word exclusivity has got to be in combination with experience, and some of the big, big country club groups have lost their edge. They've got they've taken a private, kind of more intimate experience with all the big social memberships, which I'm all about builds your business. But what they do is they fail to forget, oh, you're actually a golf member. You actually pay five times more than what this social member pays, right? Used to be that there's private like at our club. And I have no problem saying this out loud because it's my club. You know, we're golf members, all right? We pay way more money, and we paid way more investment to get into that separate golf bathrooms for us. When we're dining, we go only club members only now. They could care less. Everybody's in there. Doesn't matter. That takes exclusivity and destroys the experience. Ed Heil [00:14:50] Yeah. Interesting. That's a really interesting take on that that that differentiation there. What are the most common things that you see, maybe the most common issues that you're seeing in your work and your consulting membership teams struggle with today? You know, especially as it relates to some of this stuff, you know? Cindy Novotny [00:15:08] Right. First of all, lack of training. They they promote somebody who is young working there. And I love youth, believe me. But, you know, we have to be trained and be developed. So they they just say, oh, well, you were really good. You worked your summers while you were at school and now, you know, you were like a restaurant manager. Would you like to be a membership director? Would you like to. And then bingo. Put them in it. Then they have no idea. They don't know how to reach out, how to talk to an existing member. They're Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 hours. So I'm not even kidding. Some of them. I mean, it's hilarious. Okay. And I'll say to him, you know, if there's a big event going on, a membership event for members, you need to be there and talk to the members and who else they know and and ask about what kind of events they like, because it's not just about the new, getting new members. It's about enhancing what the current members really like. Sometimes we're putting on things for our members that no one cares about. They're like, I don't even like, why? Why are you doing that? And yet some of the things have to be continued to be changed because the age difference, the youth, the people that don't want that, they don't want that, you know, Thursday night card game, they might want a game night for all families of all ages and things. So I think the biggest thing I see is lack of knowledge of the industry, lack of training, lack of how to actually use online presence, social media to find business. Right. How to follow up. We do a lot of mystery shops, of private clubs where we call inquiring about membership and it's like hilarious. Okay, we'll send you out a packet. And by the way, there's 50 people. There's 50 people on the waiting list. All right. So we'll just email and no asking questions. What would we be interested in. That's what I see is one of the the biggest problems. Ed Heil [00:16:59] Yeah. So the training thing is seems like a big thing because, you know, I mean, I think of this from the terms of it's hard to find good people in a lot of industries in the club industry and hospitality I know has struggled with that as well. So let's just say you do have these people who are eager enough, but they really have no training at all, is there? And this is probably a softball for you, but I am kind of interested because it can be a deterrent for a decision maker general manager. But, to invest in, you know, cash. What's it going to cost me to train this person? Right. So where do you start? Where do you start? With someone who just doesn't, you know, an employee who's like, yeah, I'll try that. I think I could do that. Like, how do you start training? Cindy Novotny [00:17:44] So my answer to that is simple. I say to every GM, even the equity, clubs. And you know, when I deal with boards, I'll say, you know, if you say, why should I invest? What if they leave, I go, what happens when you don't invest in training and they stay? And that is the number one biggest issue. And sometimes the turnover could be like they come in, they want to make a name for themselves. Well, remember a majority of those clubs are not looking for profit. So some of them are trying to deliver excellence. Now I happen to work with some clubs like that are phenomenal like El Niguel in Southern California. Unbelievable. They're, you know, head of membership in their general manager and what they do monthly learnings with every single employee training reading books like Unreasonable Hospitality book clubs. I speak probably like once a quarter with them. They are so invested in training and the the actual members members talk about it all the time. I cannot believe how well versed the staff is, and some of them have been there for ten, 15, 20 years. And you and I both know I love to have people stick around if they get continue training. I don't want you sticking around because it's just an easy gig, right? And that's the difference. Ed Heil [00:19:09] Yeah. It's like the the old line is the only thing worse than an employee, who quits as an employee, who quits and stays home. Right? Yeah, it is a it's a hard thing though, you know, I mean, in you're you're seeing more of a shift probably every day than, you know, some of the people that I speak with. But, you know, in our work, we're trying to help people understand the value of marketing, the value of doing things in a different way from an online presence and things like that. Sales and marketing are just words that, you know, historically haven't been really embraced. By private club. So, I mean, are you seeing that change? Cindy Novotny [00:19:46] You know, I'm seeing that change. Oh, hugely. I mean, first of all, I am a sales trainer, sales service and leadership. So even law firms that I work with, even hospitals. But before it, like up until like ten, 15 years ago, I'd be like, well, the law firms we don't sell. Why would we don't sell? Well, yeah you do, because new business development. How do you build your book of business? How do you go from being a young associate to being a managing partner? You have to know how to sell. You don't think sales is a bad word? Private clubs that have that arrogance, that think, oh, well, we're just so good. Everyone wants to join until they start losing members and when they lose members or they lose the spending. Okay. Because it's not just their quarterly spending that they have to do. Depending on the kind of membership you have when you start losing every event, every banquet, every wedding. All of this to all the other unbelievable venues. You are hurting the club. We have to invest the money back to keep the club going. How do you do that if you don't have any new business coming in? We have to make sure we're upgrading the golf courses. We're bringing in better staff. We're hiring a better golf pro. How do you do that? If you don't have that new money coming in to reinvest in the club? So whether you're looking for profit or no profit doesn't really matter. You need new business coming in. So marketing and sales to me have always been two separate things. I believe that marketing has to create the story, has to put that out and make sure the story resonates. Sales has to tell the story. So salespeople have to take what marketing puts out. Marketing, you know, does all of their online presence, all of their work, all of their messaging. Then the salespeople, the membership director has to sell that story. So instead of storytelling, I call it story selling. Ed Heil [00:21:45] There you go. I like that. Although, the name of our company would contradict that a little bit, but I guess I would say the. Well, let's talk about that because, you know, selling, if you are a general manager of a certain age or a certain vintage, or anyone in the club industry of a certain vintage, you think of selling in a certain way. How has selling changed? You talk about story selling. What does that mean, though? I mean, people aren't cold calling, you know, people are, you know, direct mail is, you know, is more difficult. What do you like? What do you see? Cindy Novotny [00:22:21] Well, first of all, I believe and our statistics that we use, I'll find all this stuff as you do. I believe that about 60, over 65% of most decisions in any business are made based on a referral. I would never suggest a cold call as long as I live. I do believe that if you're working your existing members, there's a customer behind every guest, customer behind every member, a customer at every wedding. There's new members, but at every event it's there is so much business, but we aren't working our own members and there's a finesse to that. You're not like my club. I got just I got disgusted with how they did it. Like table in that lobby. When you walk in with all this wedding paraphernalia, I said, guys, and I don't even train for them. I said, as a member, I'm a golf paying member. I said, this looks so tacky. It looks like I'm walking into, you know, four star, three star hotel. You shouldn't even. Where's your membership? Where's your person that handles special events? Why aren't you working? Why are they walking around? You know, turnover in turnover and restaurant managers. At the end of the day, the vintage GM can't wear that. It worked for that. I think the vintage GM has had a wakeup call. And the wake up call has come from the board of directors, from the corporate groups that own those, the Club Corps of the world, right? Even some of the Sterlings, the smaller ones that have less of we need more profit. We need more of this because we're building, we're investing. So when you look at the profitability of some of these clubs, they are being looked at. So a vintage just walk around and have a cocktail with the members, which I'm all about a general manager being all about that, hanging out, chatting, but not investing with that membership director to make sure they know how to go out and work the local community. Volunteer, be involved. That is exactly where they're starting to wake up, because they recognize there's no other way to do it. It's all based on referrals. Ed Heil [00:24:26] In the in the clubs that you have worked with and that you continue to work with. How many of the successful like really vibrant, healthy clubs have a general manager who has more of a business background or is business minded as opposed to just straight F&B? And I ask you that because so many general managers come up from that food and beverage side and they their, their business savvy might not really be there. What do you? Cindy Novotny [00:24:58] All of the successful clubs we're working with, they're all business savvy and they've come up through golf. They've come up to hotels. Lots of them come from hotels. They've come up through food and beverage, but not as much as they used to. Now it is all about, you know, the tournament business. It's all about, you know, that that the hospitality, hotel business, regional kind of executive directors, things like that. And every club we're working with that's successful has a GM that gets it. Hence why they're working with us. Ed Heil [00:25:30] Right. Yeah. Do you feel like the pandemic in the success I mean was it was very good for clubs. Oh yeah. Good clubs is very good. Did it give people a false sense of security or. Right or, you know, club leaders, a false sense of security, do you think? Cindy Novotny [00:25:45] Oh, for sure. And and not just a false sense of security. They got a little bit cocky like, oh, everybody now wants to golf. The year before that, we're running around teaching people how to get to the young people to get them excited about golfing. And I am not exaggerating. It was like the Tiger Woods movement back then, right? Got got the younger generation golfing. Okay. All right. That's done and done. So now you swing up and all of a sudden the younger generations like, I don't want to do that. It's not fast enough. I'm an adrenaline. I'm an adrenaline rush, you know, junkie. I like to go parasailing. And this. And I don't want to waste money on golfing. It takes too long. Boring. The pandemic only allowed people to really like it. Because you could be outside and with your friends, right. And that was, you know, after like, March, April, even our club, because it wasn't our club, but it was the neighbors that live. Some of the neighbors that lived around the golf courses were like calling. They should be out here. I mean, obviously, oh my God, I'm not going to catch Covid on the golf course. But the idea was the club didn't want to stop that. But that was only like two months and then you couldn't get a tee time and the membership and everybody saw that because the younger people and when I say younger, I'm talking 20's, 30's. Right. Sure. They couldn't get on a plane and fly to, you know, Australia and go to where they wanted to go to do the stuff they wanted to do. So they said, all right, we're going to let's enjoy the club. And then that's why, I mean, the rise of pickleball courts, okay. It used to be just for the vintage seniors. Then all of a sudden, you see, you use that. Yeah. Tennis tennis courts are coming down and like, oh, now we only have three tennis courts and four pickleball courts. And that was some of the younger. And so it did. But it to me it's really important that what goes up goes down. It is a mentality that all of a sudden now the revenge spending is back. Luxury travel is back, luxury goods are back. People are, you know, it's really all about spending money. We call it the revenge spending. And so you have to look and say you're membership. You don't you're not tied into a lifetime membership. So I can quit anytime I want. And that money goes away that day. So that's the sort of thing you can never rest on. Well, we're just very popular. Ed Heil [00:28:09] Right? Yeah. It won't last. Just a couple of tactical questions. What I see so often are membership directors that will have people inquiring, especially, you know, up north where we are. This is the time of year people start inquiring about memberships of clubs and there is no follow up. There is someone who fills out a form and it sits there and a lot of membership directors. It almost seems like they have this mentality like, well, if they're interested, they'll call again. Cindy Novotny [00:28:40] Oh, yes. Ed Heil [00:28:42] What's the deal with that? Cindy Novotny [00:28:43] Because they've not been trained. Okay. So we know that they go online, they fill things out. And again I mystery shop all these. I shop them online on their websites. It takes three, 4 or 5 days. No response. I call, they're out of the office. I'm too busy. Busy with what? Busy with what? You're not the golf pro. You're not the food and beverage director. What do you busy with? Okay, so the idea is they've got to be able to have a process in place to be able to catch those leads and follow up with them. And this is part of a daily job of a sales person that understands that. And then second, that they if I hear what they hear it a hundred times, what our GM doesn't want us to look like, we're hungry. Our GM doesn't want to follow up. Get over that too. Because when your GM leaves and you get some hotdog GM in there, there's going to ask you how many new members you brought in. You're going to be dead out of the water. Done. Over. So the follow up is that they just, I think, are lazy. They don't. It's like they sit around doing who knows what. And that is one of the biggest issues today with which lots of hospitality industry companies. But in private clubs, it's it takes days for people to get back to you. And then if you check on a weekend, oh my god. And private clubs weekends are the hot ticket. And you ask someone like you the front desk. No one's ever sitting at any front desk any more to club, no matter how big it is. You go down to the restaurant and say to those I really like, I'm with my friends who belong to this club. I would really like to talk about joining and, okay, we'll give the name. Never Hear back. Now I'm going to give Elm credit again in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. All right. Unbelievable. Their membership director. All over it. I called and said, you know, I wanted a club where my husband could golf when we're there and that sort of thing. Janice. Okay, I'm going to give her name. I mean, Janice, so unbelievable. All right. She responded within an hour of the message. I left her because we're out of state. She gave me all the options and our farm is just over. You know, the membership of. You're a little bit farther. She worked it all out, got us all set up, invited us to dinner for our first dinner. And on them, my daughter. We. We've gone so many times. My daughter now is living at our farm and running that and works for us in the business. So we're have her and she doesn't want to go there all the time, but she can go now and dine or take her friend. Janice follows up with me. And by the way, I don't live there, by the way I'm there. Maybe, I don't know, 4 or 5 times a year. I see you on social media. She'll send me a text. She it. She makes me want to go there when I every time I come into town. That is somebody who understands what we call a luxury retail clientele. Ed Heil [00:31:41] Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:31:42] That's that's it. And she gets. Ed Heil [00:31:44] I get I give you vintage. But now you've given me to client telling and revenge spending. Yes, I appreciate that. Thank you. The, this is something you're pretty passionate about. So, you know, from your perspective, what is the right process like when you think about that follow up that, you know, someone has inquired about membership, they filled out a form membership director, goes, oh, I got an email from someone, or, you know, the form someone submitted a form. What should that follow up look like? And how many times should a membership director follow up? I mean, what have you learned as far as the most you just best practices? Okay. Cindy Novotny [00:32:24] So I used to say it takes 6 to 7 times to touch a prospect before they ever become a customer. Jessica from our team, she last year tracked it. Okay. So from we get a ton of inquiries too. And I'll I'll just walk through my inquiry process. Sure. Which which I teach to all the clubs in the members. All right. The idea is she now tracked it and it's literally now 12 to 14 times. That could be over a year. Ed Heil [00:32:49] Wow. Cindy Novotny [00:32:50] For her to close a deal. Okay. So we know it takes time. You keep going until someone says, don't ever call me again. I'm not interested. I only was checking it out. Never want to hear for you, but that never happens. Okay. Ed Heil [00:33:04] Is that phone call and email or emails and phone? Cindy Novotny [00:33:07] We're all about phone calls. First follow up with email, so I'll kind of walk through it. Got it. So as an example, when you get an inquiry, whoever catches that, which should be the membership director, because very few of them have coordinators and all of that. But you get the inquiry. So and our company [email protected] comes to me. I'm a little busy. Just so you know, I get them off and I literally look at my phone to I'm constantly looking at my phone because when I'm speaking or training, I might be talking for an hour that another trainer gets up or I walk off stage, I check, so it's no longer than two hours max that I don't respond. And the inquiries come in. And this is what we teach everyone to do, I respond. Thank you so much for reaching out to Master Connection Associates, or thank you for reaching out to the Coto de Caza Country Club at Golf and Racqet Club. I am thrilled you thought of us. I and for me, I have copied Shelly Marlow, Jessica Baker, Carla. I assign it right then. I have copy to follow up with you. Now, if I'm the membership director. I am thrilled you thought of us. The secret sauce right now is what is a good time today or tomorrow for you and I to connect. Ed Heil [00:34:21] Interesting. Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:34:22] And that's what we do. 100% of the time. Ed. Not 99. Not 89. 100% of the time we get an email back. Thanks so much for your prompt response. I every day I can count them. So appreciate it. I'm not going to be in the office or I don't have time to talk this week. Could we set up a call for Monday? Now for me, my account manager takes over and runs with that. For that membership director, it's like, absolutely. I will send an outlook invite. No phone tag here. I will send an outlook invite for the two of us to connect on Zoom or teams. That's the other thing you just said yourself. When we get on this, even though this isn't a video podcast, you and I are looking at each other right now. It creates more emotion, more rapport. Today's world allows us to send that. We send a Zoom invite to every client. We never have anyone say, I don't want to be on Zoom call. They all get on and then you can share your screen. You can show them the dining room. You can show them this. You can show them that every single time. Ed Heil [00:35:30] Wow. I love that. You know, one of the things I read early on in the pandemic was just how, you know, when more and more of this was happening. They said it builds trust. And notice when people don't turn on their camera. It makes you wonder. I know what's going on. Cindy Novotny [00:35:47] Exactly, exactly. Ed Heil [00:35:49] Yeah. Hey, I am so appreciative of your time today and for you taking, for you to take a few minutes and share some of your findings and your perspective, with the people who listen to this podcast. Anything you'd want to leave people with? As far as just some thoughts, people who are especially the general managers who are struggling with the shift, and sometimes it's dealing with boards who are of the vintage, you know, you know, board members who are more traditional. Is there anything that you would you would say to those people who are really trying to make a change, they just don't know the best way to go about becoming more of a sales operation. Cindy Novotny [00:36:29] So I do work with a lot of the boards of some of the private clubs we work with. So I speak at them, I come in, I talk, and I start out, and this is what every general manager should do is what are our objectives, what are our objectives of the board? Just private club. What do we want to do. You hear the same thing. We want to have unbelievable service. We want great food and beverage. We want restaurant quality food and beverage like we get at unbelievable restaurants all over the city, right? We want to have a the staff feel very well taken care of and feel very good because tips many times are brought are all they're all added on anyway, right. We also want to have profits so we can reinvest into the club. Like this. I hear it every time. And then I go, okay, and this is what every GM say. So how are we going to do that. All right. You got to spend money to make money. So the idea is if we want to have better food and beverage, we need a better chef. We might not have a decent chat. If we want better service, we need training. If we want to make money, we need membership directors that know how to sell for events, because some have a membership director and some have a special events manager, depending on the size. But a lot of times the membership director is doing all the special events too. So just depends. You have to be proactive to book the weddings, to book the graduations, to book the corporate events. You have to be proactive. You know who your members are if you're not reaching out to them. And that is called training. And if you don't invest, you're going to get exactly what you've been getting. Ed Heil [00:37:59] I love it. What a perfect way to end. Cindy Novotny [00:38:01] Excellent. Ed Heil [00:38:02] Cindy, thanks so much for your time today. Cindy Novotny [00:38:04] Thank you. Ed Heil [00:38:09] Thank you for listening. If you find this podcast helpful. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.