Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Hi, everyone. I'm Blayne Alexander, and today we are talking Dateline. I am here with my good friend, Andrea Canning, to talk about her episode, Running Man. Hi, Andrea. Hey, Blayne. Okay, if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed. And then we want you to come right back here. But just a quick recap.
In 2023, when the remains of Ashley Schwalm were found in a burned out car at the bottom of a ditch, investigators wondered if this was a tragic accident or something far more sinister. They learned that her firefighter husband, James, had meticulously planned out his wife's murder. In this episode, we've got an extra clip of Andrea's interview with Samantha Jones.
the executive director of the Women's and Children's Shelter, My Friend's House. She'll talk more about the event held in Ashley's honor and how the Sunflower Fund supports victims of domestic violence. And later on, we will be joined by Dateline producer Lynn Keller to answer some of your questions from social media. So Andrea, let's talk Dateline. Let's do it.
Before we even jump into the specifics of the episode, the thing that caught me immediately off the bat was seeing clips of young Andrea reporting in your hometown. That was the coolest thing.
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Chapter 2: What happened to Ashley Schwalm in the 'Running Man' episode?
Well, with all of that as the backdrop, this certainly made for a very, very, very fascinating story. How did you find out about this story?
This was not one of those ones, you know, that it was like, oh, in the story meeting, this was my phone was blowing up with, you know, texts and calls and, oh my gosh, did you hear about this story? I was hearing from all kinds of friends and relatives from the area who, you know, could not believe it.
I mean, it's just to think like the way we start the episode, you know, to think that something that we cover all the time, Blaine, could happen that close to my house, you know, it just was unbelievable.
Yeah. Absolutely. It truly was. And we even got to meet one of your high school friends in this episode, too. Anne?
Yes. Well, so I ran into Anne at a New Year's Eve party last year, and we were talking about the case, and I asked her if she would be a part of it. She... had the privilege of knowing Ashley because they were neighbors. And so for me, when it comes to the victim, Ashley, it was amazing how like our lives had intersected, you know, but we didn't know each other.
And so it was just like bizarre when you start looking into a case and you realize that there's a million connections. And now I hate the fact that I've gotten to know her family because of this. But at the same time, I'm so grateful to know them now because they're such an amazing family.
And my heart is just broken for them because I'm just seeing this story on a much more personal level this time. And, you know, to see what they've gone through and what they're going through and, you know, going through this process with them, it's surreal. That has to bring a new layer to doing a story like this.
Absolutely does. Absolutely. Well, let's talk about this episode, Andrea. I want to start with the crime scene because obviously that's where everything begins. But just this notion, there was a portion when you were doing the drive-along interview and you heard from the investigator who said, I was immediately struck by just how hot that fire was.
I knew immediately that that's not something that's normal. That really stood out to me, just how massive that fire had to have been.
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Chapter 3: How did Andrea Canning connect personally to the case?
Initially, they said, well, wait a second. Like, yes, the lighter's in there, but that is, you know, his car, right? So it could be... Theoretically. We know he confessed. So clearly it was a mistake. But the dad in the story, Ian, says... You know, he doesn't watch Dateline. Like, he made all these mistakes. You know, this is a survivable crash.
You know, it was like there was no high impact that they could tell. I mean, there were so many red flags about that fire. I mean, you can only think maybe he thought it would burn out before anyone saw it, you know, and then it would take a while for... I don't know. It's like, he did all these things. He made it so complicated. But then at the same time, it was such an imperfect crime.
He made some obvious mistakes. But it's so sad, though, because regardless of how he carried out this crime or how he was trying to cover it up, Ashley's gone. You know, what a mess he's made of this amazing life that he had.
And it was so self-centered. I mean, the children, like we could do a whole episode on that and of itself. I think that what got me, one, knowing how young the kids are, watching their dad's arrest, the daughter hearing what happened, like hearing these, I mean, that's just terrible.
How about the teacher call? Yes, yes. Like, wasn't that unbelievable to hear that?
The teacher called for me. And then seeing the son. The silhouette of the son as James was kind of scoping out the place where he would park the car was like you took your son along. You're talking. You're having father-son talk while you're planning to kill his mother. It's sick, Blaine.
There are a lot of just really obviously creepy things that we hear in Dateline episodes, but this one had to have been close to the top of the list. That was terrible. All right, when we get back, we've got an extra clip of Andrea's interview with Samantha Jones from the Women and Children's Shelter, My Friend's House.
We'll hear more about Ashley's memorial and how her family hopes to bring awareness and help victims of domestic violence. You've talked about the family a lot, just becoming close to them. Yeah. Let's talk about the investigation. So when James came in and mapped out the route that he took to walk the dog, I thought, oh, okay, it's not going to be him. That's just kind of a red herring.
We're going to go in another direction. It'll be somebody else. And even, I mean, it seemed like that is almost kind of the ironclad, okay, this way, this is the way I went. Camera, show me. And we're all good.
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Chapter 4: What evidence pointed to Ashley's husband as a suspect?
You know, I would, I trusted him with my life. You know, like you run into a burning building with this person. And so now, you know, you just, you just look back and you're second guessing and you're like wondering like, why did, you know, even Lindsay, when this Ashley's sister, when she found out he'd been arrested, she like had a moment where she felt bad for him. And she's like,
It's so twisted. But he's family. She was being so honest in this interview and raw.
Yes.
And she's like, that was what I felt in that moment. And she's kind of like, how messed up is that?
But it's real. That's a real thing. Something that stood out to me about what she said too was, you're going to spend the rest of your life paying for this when she talked about that affair. That was just so... It was chilling. It was sad. It was sad.
And she didn't mean it. Of course. With what happened, she just meant, like, you're going to pay for this because he's going to make you pay for it. He's going to hold it over your head, right? Not with murder.
Of course.
Like, never did that ever enter her mind, Lindsay.
Yeah. Well, this was a fantastic episode. Thank you. Of course, of course. All right, after the break, we will be joined by Dateline producer Lynn Keller to answer some of your questions from social media. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. We are so lucky to be joined by Dateline Super Producer Lynn Keller. Hi, Lynn. Hi, Blaine. I want to ask you, I'm so excited to have you here.
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Chapter 5: What role did the children play in the unfolding of the case?
They did not interview her, so she must be out of the picture somehow. Any insight?
Yeah, she died in 2004 of cancer. So Ashley was probably early 20s when her mom died, and it was a huge, huge loss for their family. Of course. Ian, the dad, talks about it sounds like they had an incredible marriage. He just loved her so much. Yeah, it was a big hole in their family.
Of course. And Ashley's dad mentions how similar Ashley was to her mother. It sounds like they were very close.
Yes. I think Ian's on the tough side, Lindsay, the sister, and then the mom and Ashley are kind of like maybe softer around the edges.
Yeah. Well, Lynn, thank you so much to you and Andrea for bringing the story to us and doing it so beautifully and so delicately. And it was great to have you on today. Thanks for talking Dateline with me. Thanks so much. And that's it for Talking Dateline this week.
Remember, if you have a question about Dateline, please DM us a video on social media at DatelineNBC for a chance to be featured in a future episode of Talking Dateline. Or of course, you can leave your question in a voicemail. That number is 212-413-5252. And if you or anyone that you know is experiencing domestic violence, you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at any time.
That number is 1-800-799-7233. Again, 1-800-799-7233. Or you can visit the website, thehotline.org, for more resources. And of course, we will see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Thanks so much for listening.
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