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Chapter 1: What is the background of Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni's court case?
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Hello and welcome back to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Matanda-Doughty. Now, two very famous celebrities clad in matching tones of olive green entered the Daniel Mahoinihan courtroom in Southern District of New York. Now, if that name sounds really familiar, that is where the Diddy trial was. What followed was hours and hours of Blake Lively's and Justin Baldonis' camp desperately seeking a settlement. What on earth is going on? But before we jump in, just a warning, this episode does contain some strong language.
Kiitos, että katsoitte. Ja se tuli paljon aikaa, mutta resta Seanin aikaa hän on suunnittelemaan suurta tulevaisuutta Yhdysvalloissa. Olen tullut! Olen tullut! Olen tullut! Olen niin iloinen! Hän on CrossWired-podcast-festivalissa. Teemme live-kirjoituksen. Olen hieman nervoissani laittamaan tämän miehen live-huoneeseen.
Chapter 2: How does court-mandated mediation work in celebrity cases?
Niin myös julkaisijat ja koko BBC. Hän on täällä katsomassa ja oppimaan enemmän tästä maasta kuin vain Paddington ja Benny Hill, jotka näyttävät olevan hänen yksiänsä. Ja Marmalade. Ja luulen, että Marmalade tuli Paddingtonista, joten se on kaikki. Ja Mind the Gap. Ne ovat asioita, joita tiedän.
We've got great cultural exports. We really are a powerhouse on the global stage. But today, Sean, this really is one of your expertise. We're talking about court-mandated mediation. Sounds like legalese there. But we had Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni together inside the Southern District of New York courthouse trying to figure this out.
Lähtökohtaisesti Justin Baldonin, Jamie Heath, Wayfarer Studio ja muut suomalaiset suomalaiset suomalaiset suomalaiset suomalaiset
Ei kuitenkaan. Ja se on yksi yksityiskohtainen syrjintä. Usein, ja usein yhdistelmissä Yhdysvalloissa, yksi asia, joka on tarvetta ennen kuin sinä voit mennä haastatteluun, on järjestelmä, joka kutsutaan ADRiin, Alternative Dispute Resolutioniin, koska se on vaihtoehto mennä haastatteluun.
Kuten ihmiset siellä ovat sanoneet, amerikkalaiset ovat melko lähtökohtaisia ja me löydämme itseämme kohdalla niin paljon, että mitä kohdallamme tekevät on, että ennen kuin menetään kohdalle, ennen kuin pysäytämme kohdallisuuden, ennen kuin teemme sen ilmaisuuden, että menemme kohdalle, miksi ette yrittäisi tehdä tätä toisen puolueen kanssa ja katsoa, voivatko te tulla resoluutioon.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of confidentiality in mediation?
Kiitos kun katsoit videon!
Sometimes we've had mediations before we even file a lawsuit, before we even serve it. We've had that in some cases that we've handled, that the parties get together and they say, look, the court's going to order it anyway. I'm about to file a lawsuit against you. Before we do a lawsuit, let's sit in a room and see if we can work this out. So that is pre-suit mitigation. And then also what ends up happening is trial could be coming up in a couple of weeks or a couple of months, and the court will flat out call the parties and say, hey,
Have y'all engaged in ADR, alternative dispute resolution? Have you engaged in mediation? And if the parties say no, then they say, look, before this case gets on my docket, before we pick them 12 folks, I need to hear you guys gave a good faith effort to try to mediate the case.
What about in this case where we've got Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively engaged in this over a year long bitter court battle, but she alleges she was the victim of sexual harassment. He alleges that she's accusing him of something so heinous to ruin his reputation. Are you going to make them sit in the same room for hours on end to sort this out?
It's actually kind of rare to have a mediation take place inside of a courtroom. It usually doesn't happen that way. You pick a location. Sometimes we'll go to the opposing party's law firm. Sometimes they'll come to our law firm. Or sometimes they go to a third party's law firm. What ends up happening usually is we'll have what are called just like a trial. You'll have opening statements. No jury or anything of that nature. But
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Chapter 4: What challenges arise during mediation between opposing parties?
Justin's attorney and Justin will be in the room. Blake and Blake's attorney will be in the room. And then the mediator. The mediator is usually a court certified officer. Could be a lawyer, could be somebody from that district who is a mediator. And then the parties talk. They just say what they want to say in their opening statements. Blake, you did this. Justin, you did this. After they get done with their opening statements, if they're even required, they sign a document.
The document says this is confidential. Anything we say, anything we do, anything we try to do in this room shall not, foreshadowing, shall not be able to be used in a courtroom down the road. You cannot say stuff inside of this courtroom. This is all confidential. The reason you want it confidential is so if the parties try to settle. Well, then after they sign it, they go to separate rooms.
They probably don't see each other the rest of the day. The mediator goes from room to room to room. It sounds, for all this fancy legal jargon, what ends up happening is the mediator will go to Blake's room first and say, Blake, what do you think this case is worth and why? Tell me the strengths of your case. Tell me the good parts of your case. Tell me the things about your case. She says, I have been horribly this, this, this, this, this and this. My first demand to them is $20 million.
Sitten he käyvät Justinin kautta. He pyysivät $20 miljoonaa. Minä en anna $20 miljoonaa. Minä en anna $20 miljoonaa, minä anna $1 miljoonaa. Miksi sinun mielestäsi tilanne on vain $1 miljoonaa? Koska lainsäädäntö sanoo tämä, lainsäädäntö sanoo tämä, lainsäädäntö sanoo tämä. Sitten lainsäädäntö menee takaisin toiselle kautta. He käsittävät $1 miljoonaa $20 miljoonaan. Sitten he sanovat, että mennään $18 miljoonaan. Tämä jatkuu kuukausien, jos ei päivien aikana. Ja se on lainsäädäntö. Jeesus, heillä on tehty työtä heille, lainsäädäntö. On
It can be court appointed. It is usually court certified where they have to go. They have to take classes. It's usually somebody from the district who knows. And the reason we want someone from the district is we want somebody who knows what juries are likely to do. Somebody who knows the law. A lot of times former judges are the best mediators because they know everything that's going on in the case. And we always say the best mediators are people that both sides respect. And in a quality, good mediation,
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Chapter 5: How do power dynamics affect allegations of harassment in Hollywood?
No one leaves happy. And that means technically the mediation worked. That somebody paid way more than they wanted to and someone got way less than they wanted to. And that's the process.
No, you said that that's very interesting, that they can't bring up anything at trial that was said in mediation. But what if something really outlandish is said that contributes to the point they're trying to make? For instance, in this case, this is just completely theoretical, but if Blake Lively says something abhorrent to Justin Baldoni, and then he brings, he can't say at trial, not only has she subjected me to this, this and this in the press, when we got into the mediation room, she called me a prick.
If she says something, it is not permissible based upon that agreement. It is not permissible to be used inside of a trial courtroom. And the question always comes up, what would a judge do if somebody gets on the stand and says something completely impermissible in front of that jury? What will end up happening? And then the other thing that could end up happening is you have confidentiality agreements.
So you've noticed nobody has given us any statements as what's happened in this mediation. You haven't heard Blake said he was this and these was this and this was this. You haven't heard any press conferences. And what would also happen is, let's say for argument's sake, they settled it.
Katsotaanpa, että he käsittelevät sen tarpeeksi. Ja katsotaanpa, että Blake jätti sitä tarpeeksi. Katsotaanpa, että hänellä on pressikonferenssi ja hän sanoo, että hän on pannut 10 miljoonaa. Ja hän käsittelee, että hän oli pahassa. Tämä voisi välttämättä välttämättä välttämättä. Ja he voisivat sanoa, että me haluamme rikkoa ja me haluamme mennä kohdalle, koska he ovat välttämättä. Mennään suoraan kohdalle. Se on heidän oikeuksensa.
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Chapter 6: What role do text messages play in legal cases involving celebrities?
No you say it mentioned there about getting up on the stand and saying something in front of the jury. I want everyone to cast their minds back to the Diddy trial because Mark Agnifilo introduced a few times within that trial that the jury should start to question why the federal government were going after Sean Diddy Combs. And the question should lead them to the answer that they were attacking a successful African-American man. Now he put that point forwards. But all the judge did was bring the jury back in.
Ja sanovat, että se on epäilyttävä. Vapaa se ylös. Men in black, se on epäilyttävä. Se ei ole robotit. Jos he kuulevat jotain, he kuulevat sen. Miten se toimii?
No sinä olet juuri oikeassa. Mikä se on kutsuttu käsittelyyn? Jumala on tiettyjä asioita hänen käsittelyssään. Haluan, että me menemme tähän. Jumala on tiettyjä asioita hänen käsittelyssään, Nushka. Hän voi sanoa, että tiedätkö, en usko, että se on niin paha. Se, mitä olimme sanoneet, ei ole paha. Käsittely on käsittely, joka sanoo, että juri voi käsitellä ongelmaa.
You know what? This doesn't go to the ultimate issue of innocence or guilt. It's not that big so I can give a curative instruction. But let's say it's something big. Let's say it's something that's massive. Let's say something that the judge in pretrial says we are not allowing anything in that says Diddy admitted it, that Blake admitted it, that Justin admitted it. And then someone on the stand blurts out, well, they admitted it. Well, then the judge could say, you know what? I'm throwing the entire case out.
Turning up at the court-mandated mediation, there was of course tons of press there to capture Blake Lively coming in, Justin Baldoni came in. Now Justin Baldoni came in with his wife, Blake Lively came in alone, and this led to loads of speculation online. Oh my goodness, her husband isn't supporting her anymore, her famous friends have abandoned her. But actually, I'm wondering, is there some legal strategy to her coming in alone, without these names of famous people who she's
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Chapter 7: What are the potential outcomes if the mediation fails?
to one, best friends with another, that we've heard about so much. What do you think, Sean? I think it means absolutely nothing that nobody showed up. As a matter of fact, I guarantee her, lawyers told her, don't come. Because mediation, for as fancy as it sounds, is the most boring process on the planet. It is hours of sitting in a room. Sometimes when we engage in mediation, we tell our client, you know what, bring a book. Sit there and read. Because remember, as I described to you, we have that third-party mediator who's going to one room,
Ja sitten sinulla ei ole lakia tapahtumassa. Tämän yksityisen tilanteen näkyy, että hän on vaarallinen. Olemme puhuneet paljon tästä. Tämä on voimakkaus ja siitä, kuka nämä ihmiset ovat. Ja se, että Blake on järjestetty yhteistyötä häneltä, jotta hän voisi luoda näkökulma, joka on tuossa ionisfeerissä. Hän käyttää vahvoja ystäviä ja PR-ystäviä, jotta hän voisi luoda näkökulma, joka ei ole tuossa.
Taylorista ja Ryansista ja he ovat paljon vahvempia kuin Seanista ja Anushkasta ja jos he sanovat asioita, niin ihmiset kuulevat, että ajatteluprosessi on hän, hänen PR-yhtyeensä, hänen vahvistuneista ihmisiä ovat voineet käyttää näitä ihmisiä takapuolella, jotta luodaan narratiivia, jotka vaikuttavat Justinille. Ja vielä enemmän kuin se, jotta voidaan vahvistaa kreatiivinen kontroli filmista hänen puolestaan. Toivottavasti, toivottavasti. Tuo osa myös.
But why is that relevant for a sexual harassment claim? We're talking about power dynamics. Could she actually be, and please don't come for me, I'm not saying she can't be, but could she actually be harassed? Could she actually be in that situation when she has dominion and control over the set, when she is the power broker and she has more power than Justin on this set?
Voiko hän olla tilanteessa, jossa hän on haastava työelämässä, kun hän on voima setissä? Kun hän on tärkein asiantuntija ja hänellä on tärkeimpiä ihmisiä ympäri häneltä. Ja se tulee olemaan Justinin tuntemus koko tilanteen aikana, että ei ole harrastusta, ei ole mitään tällaista. Sinä olet voima. Teet tilannetta, joka ei ole siellä. Kun käytät perheesi, yrität luoda tarinaa, joka ei ole oikeastaan totta.
Now obviously Blake Lively's side are arguing he was her boss and her co-star, so he had complete power over her on that set. But we've spoken about discovery before. Discovery in this case has been extensive. That's where texts, emails, I mean letters if you're fond of that, can be subpoenaed and entered into the docket as evidence of certain things that were going on to contribute to the argument that either side are making. I'm going to read you some of the messages between Blake Lively and Taylor Swift. I just want you...
Kertoisitko minulle, kuinka huonosti luulet, että Blakella oli yksi pysyvällä? Okei? Okei, olen. Tämä on Blake Livelyn Taylor Swiftin BFF. Hän sanoo, että jos tulet täällä, jossa minun elokuvani tyhjyysjohtaja on edelleen täällä, joten toivon, että hän on edelleen täällä. Voitko auttaa minua? Tarvitsen apua hänelle.
Can you tell him you're excited for the movie, that you read the book, but what you're freaking out over is the pages I sent you? What a magnetic scene that is, or whatever descriptives you're comfortable with. I'll send you the scene, you don't have to read it, of course, it's a quick read. He's a clown and thinks he's a writer now, and got this rewrite and told me he appreciates my passion. That's it, full stop. So having the greatest living storyteller unknowingly echo to him how much you love what we're doing, open brackets, giving him credit as if he wrote them with me,
Ja sitten jatkuvasti Taylor Swift kirjoittaa takaisin, että minä tehdän mitä tahansa sinulle. Kuinka vaarallista luulet, Sean? Luulen, että se vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti vaarallisesti
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