Episode 135: Sara Protasi discusses the philosophy of envy
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What is the basic philosophical definition of envy presented at the start of the episode?
Hello
and welcome to Elucidations, an unexpected philosophy podcast. I'm Matt Teichman.
I'm Charlie Weiland.
With us today is Sarah Protazzi, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the University of Puget Sound, and she is here to discuss the philosophy of envy. Sarah Protazzi, welcome.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
So unlike a lot of the topics that come up on this show, I think probably most people listening have some idea of what they think envy is. But I thought maybe we could just start with like a quick everyday example of like, what's a textbook case of envy?
Sure. I think that a really neat but simple case of envy is the emotion that Cinderella's stepsisters feel for Cinderella. In fact, I mean, we find envy in a lot of folk tales. We can find envy in Snow White. We can find envy in Sleeping Beauty. And of course, there are common patterns here that we could talk about. But I like thinking about Cinderella because it exemplifies some general features of envy that are supported in empirical literature. So they feel this painful emotion. towards someone whom is similar to them in many respects and whom they perceive as similar to them. Because, of course, they are stepsisters, even though they have a different mother. They come from a similar background. They are more or less similar in age.
But, of course, they differ in one important quality, and that is in their life supposed to be prettier, which for women is supposed to be an important quality. And we'll set aside the politics of that.
Pretend that's relevant.
Yeah. And so the idea there is that they perceive themselves to be in a disadvantageous position. And they, in this case, which is most cases that people tend to think of when they think about envy, they actually feel hostility, right? They want to harm her. And we know how the fable goes. They actually fail, but they do their best to try to bring Cinderella down to their level so that she doesn't become a princess. So, I mean, I can talk a bit more about how that is reflected in other circumstances, but in my work, I define envy as a painful emotion, a painful reaction to a perceived disadvantage or inferiority to a similar other with regard to a domain of self-importance. So we don't feel envy with regard to things that we don't care much about.
So envy really tells us what we care about, even when we're not aware of it somehow.
Right. So there's a lot in that definition. And maybe just two things I'll draw attention to that certainly I wouldn't have thought of before sitting down with you. So one of them is this idea that in order for me to envy another person, I have to perceive myself as being similar to them in some way, in some important way.
Correct.
So like, it would be weird for me to be, I don't know, envious of Barack Obama for having been president, because I don't imagine myself as the kind of person who's like a potential presidential candidate
or something
like that.
Yes. And again, it is a perceived similarity. So, of course, it's hard for a bystander to judge, right? So sometimes, well, you just said that you don't perceive the similarity, but imagine that instead you felt you'd be a great presidential candidate, even though other people might think that that's an insane idea, right? I
drive around in a van. I'm like, hey, pass out flyers, vote for me for president. I have the idea that I am a great presidential candidate.
Right, right. In which case you could feel envy. Yeah,
yeah.
But otherwise, if we feel that there is a big gap in talent, in situation, in background, we tend to not feel envy for people who are not in the same comparison class, so to speak. Now, of course, sometimes it also depends on what's salient to you. And there might be moments in which you, for instance, you know, how do we feel envy for celebrities, right? Well, perhaps we're thinking of them as other human beings like us, and we're comparing ourselves along some kind of very general dimension. Perhaps we're thinking about our love life.
How does Sara Protasi illustrate envy using the Cinderella stepsisters example?
And we think that the celebrity is just another person like us.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the basic philosophical definition of envy presented at the start of the episode?
0:09–4:40
2
How does Sara Protasi illustrate envy using the Cinderella stepsisters example?
4:40–9:12
3
What test does Protasi propose for distinguishing envy from resentment?
9:12–14:17
4
How are envy and jealousy differentiated in the discussion?
14:17–18:01
5
What is ‘emulative envy’ and why can it be considered a positive emotion?
18:01–22:45
6
How does the conversation connect envy to admiration and other rivalrous emotions?
22:45–28:15
7
What role does envy play in political and group contexts, such as racism or affirmative action?
28:15–33:07
8
What are the final take‑aways about the usefulness of envy and the book promotion?
33:07–37:43
Speakers
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