Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, joined in the studio today by Craig Birdie. Lots going on today. Later on in the show, I'll be reacting to those controversial quotes from Richard Pochettino, but we'll kick things off by reflecting on the Champions League playoff draw that was made today. There it is.
In all of its glory, Galatasaray, Juventus, Monaco, PSG, Dortmund, Atalanta, Carabao, Newcastle, Olympiacos by Leverkusen, Borough Glint take on Inter and it's Club Brugge against Atletico Madrid. The first leg of those ties will be on the 17th and 18th. Also, of course, that draw has thrown up, Benfica against Real Madrid. A rematch of what we saw took place, obviously, just 48 hours ago.
Such a dramatic win for Benfica.
Chapter 2: What were the highlights of the UEFA Champions League Knockout Phase draw?
That goalkeeper goal, of course, seeing them through 4-2.
after the game interesting stuff from real madrid players the big boys speaking bellingham benfica had more fighting spirit we had so much talent and players that can produce magic out of nothing but if you don't do the basics you'll be punished killing in fat bay as well speaking out he of course got a brace it's not about tactics it's not about us lacking quality it's about playing with more
desire to win than your opponents. It was a disgrace. Benfica could have been 5-1 up by half time and nobody would have been surprised. They were so much better than us. We can't keep doing this day on day off thing. It's not what champions do. For more on this, let's welcome in, shall we? In Spain, Alex Kirkland is with us. Nadia Manua joins us as well.
Craig, Stevie, very vocal about it yesterday, saying as a professional, the worst thing you can do is come out and admit that the team weren't trying. Yet we've got our below on the other side going, blame everything on me. Where are we in this Real Madrid world? It just seems everyone is just talking.
It's just hot air. They're not admitting the team isn't trying. They are... They're insinuating. And they're obviously... And I would imagine Jude Bellingham and Kylian Mbappe are not including themselves in that. Yes. certainly not Kelly and Mbappe, but I would suppose Jude Bellingham is throwing the mud at other players.
So if you're in the dressing room, you're saying, well, is that me he's talking about? I mean, maybe, you know, there's no doubt some of them had a bad game. Yeah. But generally, if you come out and talk about attitude and desire, you're generally not talking about yourself.
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Chapter 3: How did Real Madrid perform against Benfica recently?
So you are throwing all that dirt at your teammates. And it just... And I think that's the kind of chat that you do have in the dressing room. And it happens all the time. I mean, you go into halftime in a game that's going, and neither will tell you, you go in in any game and it's not going well. You'll have that chat. Maybe it'll be about tactics.
Maybe it'll be about some mistakes or set pieces. But if it's a continuation of a story, there will be a frank, or there should be a frank discussion in the dressing room amongst the players and the staff about attitude.
about who's not doing it about who needs to pull the finger out about who may be hiding a little bit under the pressure and not wanting the ball because that happens you know some players can make it difficult for you this sounds strange you know but some players can make it difficult for you to find them with a pass if they're having a hard time we call it hiding in the game and it goes on and it happens i've seen it particularly when big crowds turned on players
And what we have here is a culmination of a lot of things at Real Madrid that can be dispelled somewhat at the weekend when they play, I think it's Raya Vallecano, in the early kick-off on Sunday. But certainly off the back of the chat with Xabi Alonso, off the back with the supposed dressing room unrest with Xabi Alonso, we kind of at least thought that part of it was gone.
The fact that he was the blame game So we kind of thought, well, that part's gone.
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Chapter 4: What do Real Madrid players say about their team's fighting spirit?
Now we can get on with just the football and the togetherness and the rolling the sleeves up. Well, it seems not. It seems that when bad results occur and midweek was a bad result, the blame game is alive and well at the Bernabeu. And Xabi Alonso's not around. No, he's sitting back loving it. His stock is going up with every game.
He's sitting back going... Absolutely. This is what I'm dealing with. It's interesting Craig brings up that dressing room dynamic. Considering how bad Real Madrid have been at points this season, you imagine that there has been conversations within the team considering the experience of these players. What does it then take for a player to come out and speak to the media about it?
And then how does the dressing room react to someone making this so public?
I think what Craig said has reminded me of so many times in my career where, for example, the guys were saying that it's not what champions do, it's not what professionals do.
I think if you play a game of football and in that first half the effort isn't there, the desire is not there, and you're being outrun, you're being outmatched, sometimes you get in at half-time and the frustration is so large from so many people that they will shout, they will rant, they will rave, they'll be throwing boots down on the ground, and they'll be showing that level of passion because ultimately, as a professional,
it's not just about letting everyone else just like outrun you, you know, let them have their way. You've got to be more committed and you've got to battle. It doesn't matter whether you're a team that's at the top of the league or at the bottom of the league. That is a foundation. You know, kids are doing that in like youth football now. So why would you not do it as a professional?
And I think as I listened to, also I see Mbappe talking there, as I see Bellingham talking there, you know, it's all very, very general. And, The only way I can sort of respect that in my mind is if in that locker room they've been very specific. Because if you talk in those general terms, people will be inferring, well, is he talking about me? Because I tried. Well, how about this guy over here?
He must have tried. Did he not try? You know, make it direct. Have an environment whereby these people hold themselves accountable. And I think that is one of the big measures of success. A manager will do that. But in the best scenarios, like the players will do it themselves.
So I'd like to think that Bellingham has been in that locker room or dressing room and said it a few times when things haven't been good enough and he's mentioned people directly because I think at some point you do need to have that clash as such because otherwise you can't really move forward because as soon as people start moving different directions, I think your time's up.
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Chapter 5: What criticism did Mauricio Pochettino face regarding USMNT ticket prices?
Yeah, I mean, just keep it in the dressing room. Accountability. When I was at Chelsea and Celtic, when I was at Chelsea with Frank, when I was at Celtic with the team that won the title, with Larson and Lambert, who'd won a Champions League just six months before, and all these guys... There was accountability. And that helped us go over the line under all the pressure.
Because we were under immense pressure. Rangers had won nine league titles in a row. But we had the accountability. I remember it. Henrik Larsson, one of the greatest strikers of European football in his day. The players would point the finger at him. You're not doing this. Paul Lambert, you're not doing this. Alan Stubbs, Tommy, it didn't matter who it was.
When it was going wrong, there was accountability. And I don't remember any of the boys going to the press and saying, so-and-so in the dressing room is not doing it. We sorted it out in the training ground. We sorted it out in the dressing room. And we took it on the field. And then we tried to do our job. I don't like the insinuation from players about teammates not doing it, right?
That's not something you talk to the press about. If the press in Spain or elsewhere want to accuse the Real Madrid players of having no desire, that's their job. That's an opinion. You don't want a teammate coming out
And after a bad result, and that's what it was, a bad result, it's not like the whole season's gone, and saying, basically saying, this dressing room, you just don't know what you're going to get from them. Right. Because they're so up and down, they don't care. That's when you can start to lose a dressing room, when people start, you know, questioning your loyalty.
Because you're thinking to yourself, if I'm, if it was Raleigh Sensual because he fell over, or Mastatoano because he never tracked back, or whoever it was, I'm now in the dressing room thinking... What if we lose a classical? What if we fall off the cliff? What if the crowd start booing us on a regular basis? Is he going to go and point the finger to me in the media?
And that seed of doubt gets put in the player's mind.
Are there too many alphas in this team? Is that the problem, Nadim? You can't have Vinicius Junior and Mbappe together. Is it a bit like PSG with Neymar, Messi and Mbappe? On paper it looks great, but in practice it isn't.
That's a good question, you know. That's a very, very good question. I think as I see them, They just have to work harder. You know, they're not performing to their absolute maximum defensively, for example, to where you can say, well, that's all he can give us.
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Chapter 6: How does the media perceive the current situation at Real Madrid?
And then the rest of it takes care of itself. And that is, there is a tactical issue at Real Madrid, there is maybe a balance issue, but the biggest, and I think Nadim touched on it, the biggest issue is definitely starting with the attitude and the desire. And if you get that right, you've got half a chance.
And if your attitude and desire is not right, your talent alone won't get you over the line. I liken, and you know I go on about this, but I liken what Eric Garcia is doing at Barcelona to what Real Madrid need in spades and bundles at their place.
Eric Garcia, the squad player that nobody wanted, that City let go, that went and loaned to Girona, that really wasn't going to play a part, and for whatever reason, injuries, form, what he's done, he'll knock on that door and say, right, boss, where am I playing this week? Right, Eric, you're playing right back. No problem. Eric, you're playing centre-back. You're playing left-back.
Eric, you're playing centre-midfield. Frankie de Jong's out. And he goes in and he has been absolutely brilliant. Not in a sticking out like Rafinha or Lamal or Ferran Torres or Fermin Lopez. But no, just going in, grafting and grinding and filling holes to make sure that he's doing a job for his manager. That's what Real Madrid need. They don't necessarily need the big stars.
They need people that are going to come in and fill these important holes for injuries and problematic areas to allow... the bigger players to go and do their stuff. But they also have to work hard. And that is, starting this weekend, all eyes are going to be on them.
To coin a phrase that Craig uses quite often, Nadim, looking at it from a Benfica perspective, what do you do when a big DAF goalie goes up?
Oh, right.
For that goal, as a defender, how do you handle him? Who's picking him up?
It's a goalkeeper. It doesn't matter. Even if you had 11 versus 11, you still wouldn't know who's supposed to be picking up the goalkeeper because it's just so abnormal. But this is Real Madrid down to nine and probably we've noticed, look how few people they actually have in the box.
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Chapter 7: What are the implications of dressing room dynamics in football teams?
Like Real Madrid are still thinking about trying to score a goal themselves, which is this sort of like overall insanity of the moment itself. You know, look, Real Madrid have got three players outside of the box refusing to defend. They are down to nine players, Dan Thomas. They are down to nine players. So the goalkeeper is essentially going to have a free header.
If the service is good, this is the goal that you can get. And it's an amazing moment for him. Amazing moment for football itself to see it happen. But yeah, I wouldn't say have three players outside of the box. At least one of them. Make the effort to try and mark him at least. Only if you're playing Arsenal.
And they've got everybody in the six-yard box. But it is one of the greatest outs in football when you go to the dressing room. And who's picking him up? And everybody goes, well, I had my man, or you told me to mark Zonale. But it was, you know, Champions League story apart, it was a great moment. And obviously, to be able to make Benfica and Mourinho scrape in to, was it the 24th spot?
Absolutely, yeah. With that goal, so late on against his former team who are now going to meet again, it was just an incredible story. Fair play to the goalie.
Back to the bracket then. Let's just confirm, shall we, how things look. Now, it's weird. We don't really know why. There will be a draw again then after the playoffs to see which of the two teams will face the winner on their respective side of the bracket. So in theory, Obviously, you could have, for example, PSG in action against Barcelona, if that's the way the draw works out.
Looking at these other ties, anything else stand out? Is there any other La Liga sides there? I'm just looking. I haven't paid much attention, to be honest. Atleti, Alex.
Yeah, Atleti are there and there is talk about unrest at Real Madrid. There is unrest at Atleti right now as the transfer window comes to a close and they haven't signed any players in this window. Four players have left Atleti in January. Not key players, not players that were playing a lot, but four players have left. And they haven't signed.
And there's a big behind-the-scenes kind of division between the coach, Diego Simeone, and Matteo Lomani, sort of the sporting director, who's looking at bringing players in. Simeone's not happy they haven't had those reinforcements. Atleti are up against it because they haven't been playing particularly well either.
They also kind of blew it in the Champions League to find a place in the playoffs. And let's see. Let's see if they can find a way through. Right now, you don't look at Atleti and think this is a team that can compete in the latter stages of the Champions League. Like I said, their squad has been weakened this month. It hasn't gotten stronger.
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