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Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud

Colm Tóibín

10 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

2.393 - 24.819 Unknown

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43.838 - 50.988 Bella Freud

I'm pretty confident talking into a mic. Hey, I'm doing it right now. But home projects, I second guess everything.

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51.028 - 65.627 Unknown

Is that noise normal? Is that water damage? And who should I even call? That's where Thumbtack comes in. Upload a photo or voice note, and their AI-powered search helps diagnose the issue and match you with the right top-rated local pro.

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65.607 - 77.803 Bella Freud

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83.33 - 88.577 Unknown

Hi, come in.

94.025 - 96.954 Bella Freud

Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Colm Tobin.

97.014 - 97.796 Colm Tóibín

Thank you.

98.659 - 103.393 Bella Freud

Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?

Chapter 2: What inspired Colm Tóibín's writing journey?

371.55 - 374.094 Colm Tóibín

It's great. But I'm just going, you know, I'm not.

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374.114 - 379.941 Bella Freud

It's got a kind of fashion, like an Anne de Millemeister sort of minimalist look.

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379.921 - 401.808 Colm Tóibín

Yeah. And this jacket is good. I've been teaching with it all semester. So you go in and eventually you take it off because it's too hot in the room. But the fact that it's red inside, it's very nice because it has a little yellow hook or a little thing you can hang it up. And whoever designed it thought, well, black and red, and then you need a little bit of yellow.

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402.449 - 403.11 Bella Freud

That's good.

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403.597 - 406.1 Colm Tóibín

Oh, it's got big pockets. You can put books in them and stuff.

406.12 - 432.313 Bella Freud

Oh, yeah, I love that. I remember Ozzie Clark saying, if you're going to do a pocket, it needs to fit a dozen eggs in. Don't really know why, but I sort of got what he was aiming for. That's pretty good. Proportion and scale is everything. And you're an Irish writer and the author of 11 novels and numerous essays and volumes of short stories.

433.075 - 457.77 Bella Freud

And as well as the multitude of awards you've received, you've been nominated three times for the Booker Prize. And the film of your book, Brooklyn, won an Oscar. And I was given Brooklyn when it came out and you became and you remain my favorite living writer. Oh, yes. And I've heard many writers say they hate the actual writing, even though they're compelled to write.

457.81 - 460.603 Bella Freud

And I wondered if you ever hate writing.

460.904 - 485.085 Colm Tóibín

Oh, no, it's too strong a word, hate. I get lazy and I prefer to do something else. But you have to settle down to it and do it. And it's always easy to stop. You know, just I'll stop at this page because I write in longhand. I just could stop in this page. But then you can't do that. So you've got to say, I'm going to go on. I mean, just go on writing.

Chapter 3: How did Tóibín's upbringing influence his work?

1770.602 - 1782.321 Bella Freud

And it all seemed to go wrong. And my grandmother was Irish. And it seemed like these misdemeanors around thinking sort of more of yourself were fraught. Why was that?

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1782.689 - 1789.158 Colm Tóibín

Well, I suppose that my mother was a widow and there was always that sense of how should a widow dress?

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1789.579 - 1789.979 Bella Freud

Right.

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1790.68 - 1815.504 Colm Tóibín

And there was a very big moment. The big thing that came in in those years was the sheepskin coat. And I think they were much more expensive than ordinary coats. But eventually my mother did have a sheepskin coat. But... The business of hair and how you dyed it. You see, women just didn't want to go gray anymore. There were some women who did, who prided themselves on just being utterly gray.

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1815.885 - 1845.855 Colm Tóibín

But then if you were very posh, you did blue. literally blue hair. You don't see it at all now, I think. But then you just, the other women just went into his place and just got black. But black went out because you could see the gray roots. And what came in was a sort of, a sort of auburn or sort of gold. And eventually my mother's hair got slightly gold.

1845.835 - 1851.602 Colm Tóibín

But the beginning, the first dye was a kind of blue.

1851.622 - 1852.744 Bella Freud

Like Quentin Crisp.

1853.244 - 1862.256 Colm Tóibín

Yeah. But I mean, women were very coy about it. One aunt denied it completely, said she never dyed her hair.

Chapter 4: How does Tóibín describe his experience with writing?

1862.296 - 1865.38 Colm Tóibín

She was very lucky. Her hair had stayed that color all her life.

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1867.722 - 1875.112 Bella Freud

Yeah, my grandmother had pitch black hair. And then I think she had a wig, but I never realized that until my mother told me.

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1875.312 - 1875.552 Colm Tóibín

Really?

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1875.873 - 1876.213 Bella Freud

Yeah.

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1876.393 - 1877.255 Colm Tóibín

Your Irish grandmother?

1877.335 - 1879.998 Bella Freud

Yes. Yeah.

Chapter 5: What themes does Tóibín explore in his novels?

1881.68 - 1886.066 Bella Freud

Me and my sister always wanted to have a black curly hair like her.

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1888.429 - 1891.954 Colm Tóibín

Your other grandmother sounds like an item.

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Chapter 6: What insights does Tóibín share about the Irish literary scene?

1893.135 - 1914.047 Bella Freud

I only met her. Twice, my father's mother, when her husband died, when my grandfather died, who I'd never met, she tried to commit suicide and was rescued and became very, very quiet and passive. And he started to paint her then.

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1914.365 - 1916.948 Colm Tóibín

Yeah, there's a wonderful painting where he paints her with her hands like this.

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1917.028 - 1917.989 Bella Freud

Yeah, yeah.

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1918.009 - 1933.086 Colm Tóibín

And I found that very interesting, you know, as to how you think about your mother. And it's very tender, and you see her very vulnerable. I thought that was a really good painting.

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1933.106 - 1960.993 Bella Freud

Yeah, I love that painting. And she was wearing a paisley top, and I remember him painting the paisleys on. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough podcast. Each episode, I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week, model Sports Illustrated cover girl and entrepreneur Ashley Graham talks about the time she almost quit.

1960.973 - 1979.182 Bella Freud

I called my mom and I said, mom, I just, I'm not going to do this anymore. And she told me, no, you are going to stick this out. Your body is going to change someone's life. Every decade, you're going to go through something different. So be really happy with who you are right now because things change. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays.

1979.502 - 1982.627 Bella Freud

You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app.

1988.345 - 2005.054 Unknown

So the 2026 midterms is shaping up to be an all-out brawl. But the biggest fight may not be between Democrats and Republicans, but over the congressional maps itself. Gerrymandering is not a good thing. We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, we're going out and telling people, vote for this.

2005.034 - 2025.026 Unknown

So I'm in Ashland, Virginia, a small town just outside of Richmond, which calls itself the center of the universe. And that checks out because it's the center of the political universe, at least when it comes to the 2026 midterms. That's because Ashland sits in Virginia's first congressional district, which is one of only about 35 or so that are actually competitive.

Chapter 7: How does Tóibín view the relationship between fashion and identity?

2882.202 - 2909.082 Colm Tóibín

It's, you know, the way you twist your body or the way you even look with your face. Nothing. He just hit the ball hard. And that's what I do. I'm not as good as he is. I'm not as strong. He's very, very strong shoulders and back. And I don't have that. But I play tennis and I always have without any style of any sort, completely free of, you know, any obvious...

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2909.062 - 2926.157 Colm Tóibín

nothing but brute force and hit the ball back. I don't even place the ball well. And that's a side of me that I keep very hidden where I'm very determined, dull, slow, plodding person.

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2927.8 - 2930.125 Bella Freud

Is it to do with competitiveness?

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2930.29 - 2960.006 Colm Tóibín

Yeah, that's also the case. I mean, I play a lot with Hedy, my partner, and I really do want to win and so does he. And it's fine. I mean, anyone watching it would just think these two guys are insane because also on the way home in the car, I would do a victory speech in Spanish. And I would go on like that in the car. He would just say, please stop.

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2961.989 - 2981.922 Bella Freud

So good. Oh, God. I think that's fantastic. It's so hard to actually sort of incorporate competitiveness. It's so loaded up with shame, certainly in England. And so I think any celebration of it is fantastic.

2981.942 - 2984.508 Colm Tóibín

Even at my age, winning a tennis match.

2984.528 - 2988.175 Bella Freud

That's brilliant. It's great. Shows your life, you know.

2988.577 - 3013.423 Colm Tóibín

Recently, I had a pain in my hip, which I thought was arthritis. And I thought, here it comes. Henry James, when he was dying, said to someone, here it comes, the distinguished thing. It meant death. But when I thought I had arthritis in my hip, I thought, oh my God, I'm gonna have to get new hips. And generally all these old man stuff is coming towards me. But it wasn't that at all.

3013.483 - 3035.475 Colm Tóibín

It was just some nerve. But the physio said that his friend Jim was the trainer of the Columbia men's swimming team. And that if I wanted to go and get lessons with Jim, Jim, he was sure would do them. So at eight o'clock on a Monday morning, Jim,

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