Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hey guys, it's Mark. Our team is taking a breather over the holiday weekend here in the U.S., but we wanted to share a podcast we think you're going to love. What Next is the daily news podcast over at Slate.com. It features some of the biggest news stories each week, and it's got that tongue-in-cheek introspective analysis Slate's known for.
The episode you're about to hear is all about wealth taxes. You know, the ones in New York and California. As some billionaires threaten to jump ship, residents are left wondering, what next? If you like what you hear and you want to hear more, follow What Next wherever you listen. You can find a link in the show notes. And now I'm going to hand it over to host Mary Harris. Enjoy.
Earlier this week, New York's mayor, Zoran Mamdani, released this video where he is standing right on top of City Hall and taking what amounts to a victory lap.
New York, it's executive budget season. I'm proud to announce that our city's budget is fully balanced.
He rattles off a bunch of numbers, as if balancing the city's budget was as simple as racking up a high score in a video game. And then he gets to his signature achievement. taxing the rich.
Thanks to Governor Hochul, State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, Assembly Speaker Carl Hastie, and months of organizing from New Yorkers, we tax the rich. That tax alone will raise half a billion dollars per year. And that's not all.
What Mamdani is not saying here is that his new tax is nowhere close to what he campaigned on. He wanted to raise income taxes on millionaires. This tax is a lot more limited. It's a higher property tax for people with second homes, sometimes known as pied-à-terres. And it only applies to places that are worth five million bucks or more.
Of course, this has not stopped the very wealthy from getting mad about this tax. And in circumstances like this, I call up my friend Stephanie Rule. So I wanted to call you up. Because you wanted to hang out and talk? Steph's got her own show at MSNOW, where she's also a senior business analyst. She used to work in finance. She knows a few rich New Yorkers.
And she knows how they are feeling right now.
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Chapter 2: How did New York's mayor present the new tax proposal?
They would argue that like their philanthropy is, uh excuses their wealth or or people don't appreciate that so even more than saying how could these rich people not pay more taxes the question i don't think is that the question is to all of the lawmakers who created all of the loopholes for the super rich to swan dive through
So for every lawmaker out there that created a loophole because they got a $25,000 donation from a super rich person, that lawmaker needs to take a long look in the mirror because they're the reason that the divide is only growing.
Steph's got a point here. But with the Trump administration dead set against raising taxes, this self-reflection has fallen to local electeds. And it is not just Zoran. Lawmakers in Maine and Washington state have gotten on board with taxing the rich, too. In the fall, voters in California are going to have the chance to weigh in on a one-time tax for all the state's billionaires.
In preparation, folks like Google founder Sergey Brin have already packed up their things.
It's a wealth tax. And we're going to see, I just think in the case of California, and again, I'm not saying don't tax them more, but I don't think that the way they have this structure, I don't think it's going to get them the result that they're looking for.
So in California, it's this one-time tax. In New York, we're talking about a tax on second homes. It feels like that's just, those are very different prospects to me.
Yes, and I actually think that what they want to do in New York could be absorbed and people could say like, don't like it, but okay. You're gonna think I'm naive saying this, but I'm gonna give it a shot. You're gonna think I'm so naive. I wish there was a way to rationally have this conversation because the economic and cultural divide is getting so much worse and we cannot have that toxicity.
We have to address it.
Today on the show, eat the rich politics are ascendant. So where's that going to take us? I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next? Stick around. Can I ask you to put on your reporter hat for me and just tell me what happened on April 15th in New York City?
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Chapter 3: What are the reactions from wealthy New Yorkers regarding the tax?
Yes.
Yeah. You hear it, you feel it, you see it. And again, I'm not saying let's cry for them, but that sentiment is real. Remember, after the UnitedHealthcare CEO was murdered, you couldn't even find private security. These companies were, rich people were, companies were scrambling to hire private security for their executives. And there wasn't enough to go around.
And I'm saying we need to do something collectively to lower the temperature because we shouldn't be at a place where anyone is fearing that they're gonna get gunned down
ever and we shouldn't be in a place where people can't afford to live and i'm saying these two extremes i don't want to live in a world where one wins and the other loses if either one of these two groups win then we all collectively lose and we have to find a solution
The other point I think you're making and some with a lot of money would make would be, hey, we do a lot of philanthropy. And that's good, too, for these places and for the people who live there. But I think the pushback on that would be. Isn't taxation a fairer way to redistribute this income? Because theoretically, the people decide then how it's spent versus someone with an agenda.
And I agree with you. So my point isn't to the rich person. My point is to the lawmaker. who for a $25,000 donation allowed the carried interest loophole to still exist. My argument is to the lawmaker who said, yes, every person who's building a AI data center who can write it off completely, right? And so they're not gonna have to pay taxes for years and years.
My argument is honestly, it's more to the lawmaker of like, then let's put together some smart, impactful legislation to actually even the playing field. And you're 100% right. We shouldn't need their philanthropy. I don't want to have to beg for your philanthropy. I want you to be taxed appropriately. Yes, that is how I feel and that is what I think.
But absent of us putting in smart regulation and taxing them appropriately, absent that, I don't want to lose their philanthropic dollars. Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah. I mean, I think the hard thing is what you're talking about is national rules, right? Which obviously are not going to be made anytime soon. And so instead, you have these local actors making these choices because it's quite popular with their constituents, as far as I can tell. And because their constituents are feeling something real.
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Chapter 4: What does Stephanie Ruhle say about the sentiment among the rich?
He won by a lot. A lot. Okay. A lot. And he's a very successful and very impactful political leader. And so if you're going to live in New York City, which a lot of these people want to stay living in New York City and he's going to be our mayor, my naive hope is that they can find a constructive, that there can be a constructive path.
Yeah. I mean, it was interesting to me that Mom Donnie chose to do this video at Ken Griffin's apartment. He's an easy target, but he's also someone who literally left a city because he was arguing with the people there. I'm talking about Chicago. He was arguing with people there about crime and taxation.
So I was like, if you're going to pick one guy, like this is the guy who's going to be like, well, obviously I'm going to take my toys and go home.
Yes. And I guess a lot of people could argue here. They want his money, right? They want his business here. They want the, and some people could say, no, get the hell out of here. But I'm saying that's a huge development. There are lots of jobs associated and, um, Right. These people are feeling like they could be gunned down. No one should feel that way.
And again, no one should feel like they can't afford to eat or live in the city where they work. That doesn't work either. This divide is so extraordinary. And couple that with a president yesterday. Like, I truly think what Trump just said yesterday when they were talking about the war in Iran.
What extent are American financial situations motivating you to make a deal?
not even a little bit the only thing that matters when i'm talking about iran they can't have a nuclear weapon i don't think about america's financial situation i don't think about anybody this is the same line the president has been using he told this to me oh i don't know i talked to him eight weeks ago where he said before we struck iran they were two weeks away from developing a nuclear bomb and they were going to use it that's just not true there's no evidence supporting that
And so we have to get back to a rational place because this K-shaped economy is only getting worse. So like, I'm not surprised when I'm with investors, they feel great. The market has soared and they also know that if they keep their heads down and their mouth shut and keep smiling, Trump answers to the market.
Because when you see it tank, you see him suddenly say, no, we got a one pager with Iran. No, we've got something to do.
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Chapter 5: How are lawmakers responding to the wealth tax movement?
Like I never even moved to New Jersey where it would be cheaper to live because I didn't want to miss one single minute commuting because I wanted to be with my kids. Right. And I'm not rich compared to the people we're taught that what I'm saying is the people who are tracking their nights of sleep.
and the app are tracking their nights of sleep and rushing to the airport to make sure they don't sleep in New York tonight. And that airport ain't LaGuardia. They're going to Teterboro on their private plane because they're tracking their nights. I'm saying the people who leave are like the richest of the rich people.
And I'm always like, dude, you're the ones who could really afford to be everywhere. Do you know what I'm saying?
Like, why not stay? Yes. Why have this app? Yes. Seems like a pain in the ass.
That's my point. The business people that I speak to in California who have left and a lot of people are still there, obviously, aren't finance people like they are in New York. They are people that have run more businesses that have said the barriers of entry and regulations in California are prohibitive and it's hard to do.
And I'm not defending it, but I'm just saying, guys who I cover, that's what I've heard from and they've moved their businesses.
Well, the story right is Sergey Brin, who looked at this potential wealth tax coming down the pike and moved right across Lake Tahoe to Nevada by a certain deadline so he could avoid it and aggressively lobbied Gavin Newsom, like, please, no wealth tax. And now it looks like, well, maybe it's going to be on the ballot anyway. I think that's what people see.
And they're like, oh, maybe that's going to be what happens when we have some kind of wealth tax. But maybe it's the kind of tax too, right? Maybe it's the fact that this is this one-time hit that just seems hard if you're a wealthy person versus something else. I don't know.
Or I don't know if it's hard or it's that they can game it. And I guess, again, maybe I'm naive. Like, hey, Steffo. As long as there are tax specialists out there, right? When I worked in investment banking, we had entire tax groups on the trading floor. They're not doing our clients' taxes.
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Chapter 6: What are the differences between New York and California's tax proposals?
And so with California's wealth tax, and I'm not saying whether it's good or it's bad, but potentially, you know, you were saying like in Massachusetts, it's work. Maybe it's really about how it's structured. Like maybe if we can get to a place where The majority of people aren't just absolutely incensed and angered. They can't make ends meet.
And there are people in their state across town who make a hundred times what they make. Maybe there's a way to get the stakeholders at the table with reasonable lawmakers to say, how do we make this work?
I guess I would say, I think part of your argument is about people just turning down the heat with each other, right? Like Zoran Mamdani not like tap it on the glass and say, I'm going to tax billionaires. But I think he would argue if I'm going to tax billionaires, I have to be ballsy about it because they are going to come after me.
So I have to do the political thing of signaling I mean business and I have people behind me. And so they've almost boxed him into a corner, he might say. What would you say to that?
Listen, he's fighting the guys with all the weapons, right? who know how to fight, who have all the power, he's got to do what he can. And what Mamdani is great at is public speaking, right? Is using his microphone. Nobody's better in the public square than Mamdani. I would definitely argue that.
So did the billionaires do this to themselves?
But this takes us back to the original point that you were saying. They do have real fear for their lives right now. And people could be like, no, they don't. Don't cry for me, Argentina. I don't feel for them. But... I know you're going to think I'm naive. Like I want to say, turn down the heat and find an answer.
Because if these billionaires think that this eat the rich sentiment is going away, it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's only getting louder. And by the way, just moving to Florida isn't going to solve it because you're going to have a whole lot of people that are mad there. There has to be some solution. There has to be some solve for this.
Especially if the war goes on and gas prices go up and inflation continues to go up and the market continues to go up, this K is going to turn into like a shark's mouth.
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