Stan, Clarence, Barry, and the Health Chatter team chat with Dr. John R. Finnegan, former dean of the University of Minnesota School of Public Health, about the role of public health in today’s changing landscape.Dr. Finnegan, who holds an MA and PhD in Mass Communication from the University of Minnesota, has contributed decades of experience to public health education, research, and service. His work includes leadership roles with organizations such as Children’s HeartLink, HealthEast, and the Association of Schools and Programs of Public Health, as well as involvement in initiatives focused on sexual assault prevention and gun violence research.Join us for a thoughtful conversation on the challenges and opportunities facing public health today, and how the field continues to adapt to a dynamic political and social climate.Join the conversation at healthchatterpodcast.comBrought to you in support of Hue-MAN, who is Creating Healthy Communities through Innovative Partnerships.More about their work can be found at https://www.huemanpartnershipalliance.org/
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's show of Health Chatter. We're going to be talking about, ready, public health. Now what? And hopefully we'll have some happy endings to this show that can give us some insights on where we should be going. We have a wonderful, wonderful guest with us. I'll get to John in just a second. Wonderful crew that's been with us for a long, long time.
Maddie Levine-Wolf, who's helping us record today's show. And she also does some research for us. Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, and Sheridan Nygaard, all incredible colleagues. They help us with research, marketing, production, the whole nine yards. We couldn't be doing these shows without them. They're a wonderful, wonderful crew. And I try to give them virtual hugs every day.
So they're wonderful, wonderful people. Dr. Barry Baines is with us today. Barry will provide some medical insight into our discussion. Of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's my partner. in putting out these health chatter shows to all of you, the listening audience. Human Partnership is our sponsor. Wonderful community health organization.
Provides very, very creative, insightful programs out in the public. We encourage you to check them out at humanpartnershipalliance.org. That has changed slightly. So check that out. HumanPartnershipAlliance.org. Check us out, Health Chatter, at HealthChatterPodcast.com, where you can see all the background research. We put that on. We do transcripts of the shows.
Chapter 2: How does public health adapt to today's challenges?
And you can see all the shows that we've produced. And you can listen to them again if you like. They're all really, really good. Today... is a real special, special guest. Dr. John Finnegan was the former Dean of the School of Public Health. And we go back to episode number one of Health Chatter, where we invited John in.
And I remember back then, John, we invited you because we knew that Health Chatter, or at least we wanted Health Chatter to be a communication vehicle And you, with your incredible background in communications, was a natural fit for that first show. And listening on, she can still hear that great show, number one show. And now we're at 125 or so, and we have to have John back. for this subject.
So John is the former, like I mentioned, former professor and dean of the School of Public Health, received his master's and doctoral degree at the University of Minnesota in mass communications. He's a board member and has been on boards and is still on boards going forward. And it's because a lot of people recognize his insights and his abilities to really put a lot of things in perspective.
And that's included things like Children's Heart Link, Health East, associations of schools and programs and public health, et cetera. He's done a lot of research and research. The list would be a mile long, listing all the different awards that he's got. He's really, really a dear colleague of mine, for sure. I can speak for myself. We've been linked for a long, long time.
And I really greatly appreciate you being on the show today, John. So welcome, welcome.
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I'm on all these boards because they can't get rid of me, I think.
I don't know. But they don't want to get rid of you because of your insights. So, all right, let me kick this off a little bit. And all I'm going to say to everybody on the show here is just chime in with your ideas. You know, we're living, you know, at one point we used to say we were living in interesting times. I've kind of changed that to I think we're living in troubling times right now.
And it's creating a lot of anxiety, angst for a lot of people in general, public, professionals in this case in health fields, et cetera, because I believe the underlying aspect of it all, at least for the professionals, is trying to do good and trying to help people with their health and medical issues. So there are a lot of different things that are kind of hitting us.
But first and foremost, I guess I'd like to get a perspective from, you know, with what we're going through right now and where it might lead. So, John, maybe take that and run with that.
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Chapter 3: What impact does government policy have on public health?
I think the outcome of this, and you're already seeing some of this discussion that's going on, you're going to see increased mortality and morbidity worldwide because the US is not there anymore. We're not providing the drugs and the treatment. Sub-Saharan Africa is a perfect example of this. We will likely see rises in drug resistance.
We will see threats to global security on a variety of different levels. And basically the U.S. is pulling out of WHO and taking apart USAID, is undermining the global health infrastructure. And we have played this role really since the end of World War II. with the establishment of the United Nations and later on with the establishment of the World Health Organization.
This is scary stuff to me because the US becoming more isolationist as it was in the early 20th century isn't viable anymore when you talk about travel, when you talk about the ease of getting around the world. That really worries me. And of course, as I mentioned, this has a ripple effect on local health agencies. It affects the state health agencies first, and then it affects the counties.
And as we know in the United States, the primary responsibility for public health is not the federal government, it's the states. And the states are heavily assisted by the federal government and cannot really do their job unless that assistance and that expertise is there. So I want to get that out there, first of all, so that we understand this is likely going to go on.
I think it is a global health crisis. It has far reaching consequences, some of which I probably haven't even touched on here. Food insecurity would be another area that's affecting so many people. And that's the situation that we're in right now. And I think we certainly don't wanna see it get worse. We wanna see this situation improve in some way.
And that's what I think we have to grapple with those of us that are in the professional medical and the professional public health in any wing of the health professions. We really need to sit down and figure out what's next. How are we going to be able to deal with this and improve this situation?
Well, you know, for me, thank you, Dean. One of the things for me is this, from a community perspective, I want to know who's benefiting from all these changes? Good question.
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Chapter 4: How do community partnerships enhance public health initiatives?
I mean, that to me is, who's benefiting from, I mean, you know, the... Follow the money, we used to say in journalism.
Yeah, right, yeah. I mean, you can't make this up. I mean, it's just like, it's going to have effects for sure. So, John, let me ask you this. You know, for those of us who have been involved in public health, you know, we say that, we have said, that many of the things in public health are invisible. Okay, but yet it's helping to maintain the safety and health of communities and populations.
Do you think that's part of the problem? that it's kind of reached ahead where, okay, if it's so invisible, who cares about it? Do you think that that's a sentiment that could be hurting us?
Yeah, it's sort of out of sight, out of mind is the mechanism. And I think that there's a certain amount of that. You know, I've been working in public health since 1980, and that was one of the first things I learned. is that there's so much of the public that doesn't understand what public health affects or changes or supports. And
And the reality is the reason, part of the reason I got into public health was because of community partnerships that were going on for the prevention of heart disease and things of that kind. And the people that were running those out of the University of Minnesota recognized that, hey, communication is going to play an enormous role in this whole thing. Now, this is in the analog days.
It's long before we had that. the digital communication we have today. But they realized that it was extraordinarily important that you get out there and actively talk about prevention and promotion of healthy activities and so forth. And so when they started these studies, they said, wait a minute, we don't know anything about communication.
So that's when people like me, and I'm more on the academic side, I was a journalist at one point, but I moved into the academic side of communication. And that's how I actually got involved in public health, because people like me in the social and behavioral sciences were starting to flood into public health.
Well, that was, as I say, it was the analog era where things change is when we moved into the digital era of communication. And that's when it became possible for people to isolate themselves in their little bubbles. And, you know, you only listen to MSNBC or you only listen to the Fox News or Newsmax or whatever it is.
and um and it becomes almost cult-like in some way and anything outside of that bubble you don't necessarily see is true but to get back to where public health is the the the um i think people have taken a lot of things for granted um nobody sees pub or sees seat belts as public health anymore but public that saved an enormous number of lives every single day you know
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Chapter 5: What role does communication play in public health?
You talked about seatbelts that, you know, that's a prime one. We had a show on not too long ago on gun safety and, you know, trigger locks and things and how that has actually from a death perspective, kills more kids than just about anything else.
So it sort of introduces, and again, this is public health, that a family physician could take that information and translate it into communication with my patients. And when I'm talking with my patients, it doesn't really doesn't make a difference what their political, you know, who they vote for. It's, you know, how do we keep, you know, how do we keep them healthy?
And so in physicians offices, and many people might not know this, is that we do rely on public health information. in order to make better decisions and helping our patients. And then one other piece I just want to talk about, maybe I'm reading a little bit too much science fiction with dystopian universes and things like that.
But what I'm most afraid of is seeing the dismantling of a structure and information
not only locally, but globally, you know, John, as you pointed out, and my biggest fear is that we're going to have like a descent into the dark ages, you know, I mean, it's a different version, but a version of the dark ages and health, um, because we're going to lose so much and it's, you know, it's much easier to wreck something than it is to build up again.
If you ever did any house stuff, you know, I did kitchen remodeling. Well, I had people to do the remodeling, but I got to use a sledgehammer and within two hours, I knocked out walls and stuff like that. It doesn't take long to wreck something, but you can't put that wall back up in two hours.
And that's to me is how do we maintain enough reserve so that when we get to a time of reversing the destruction and go back to you know, building what would be a better society and better health, you know, et cetera. So that's the stuff that makes me lose sleep, quite honestly.
Yeah, I get it. And, you know, this is where I do think that there are approaches that we can use. until the country recovers its senses, and it will at some point, whether it's two years from now or four years. But one thing, I mean, communication certainly is part of it. I think that transparency with people, I think admitting uncertainty with people.
And again, this isn't from the public health perspective. Listening, sometimes those of us in the academic world are not so good at listening and listening I think is really critical. And this is where I want Clarence to jump in if he will. I think one of the really critical areas of this is community partnerships.
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Chapter 6: How do healthcare professionals view the current public health landscape?
And that is well-tested stuff. We know that cross-sectoral relations, and by that, I mean, it's not just those of us in the health professions. It means us working with businesses, us working with faith communities, us working in...
and so you know health departments are a good example we we are going to always have some level of leadership there and and some level of staff support but um i think that uh we really need to think outside of the box i mean we've depended a lot on on federal and that's good i you know that when it was there now it's not there what are you going to do yeah
Yeah, and I'll pass the baton here to Clarence because this community aspect, I think, is incredibly important.
I am so glad to hear you say that, both from you and Stan, both, because it's really been the the passion for me and the work for us to talk about how do we collaborate across these boundaries in order to have community health. I agree with you that it is a community, has to be a part of the equation.
But one of the things, and I'm gonna say this because, and this is just me, I think that in this work, you ask, how do we find the right ones? You have to find those organizations that self-identify that that is their passion. And I think that one of the things that has happened for me, one of the heartaches for me has been we can no longer afford to...
you know, to do this work with folks just because it's a job. There has to be some real self-identified self-interest in this work. I mean, we're at that place right now where we have to have people self-identify what they want to do. And we have to be willing to help them to make that, to help them to do those kinds of things.
And so I'm very much, I believe very much 100% of what both you and Stan have just said. I believe that. And I think that we have to get to a point where we start working together more collaboratively in order to really address these issues. And it's going to be more and more important as we go through this new transition. And I was going to say one thing too.
Barry, you talked about as a physician, we're not political. We try not to be political. But a lot of the people that we serve, their health is political. They will or will not take a vaccine because of their political views. You know what I mean? And so how do we work together to help people to understand the importance of the choices that they make?
So those are just things I want to throw out there. But I am in 100% agreement with what you guys are saying.
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Chapter 7: What strategies can be implemented to improve public health outcomes?
What other angles might you think of, John?
Well, I think you've got to have a leadership structure. I mean, certainly I would argue that if the governor were to support something along these lines, he's pretty much a good leader that could really help get this going. And I am impressed with our governor. because I know he's been meeting with people on the conservative side of politics in other places.
And he's been listening and he's been very humble about those meetings. He isn't coming in there to say, well, your philosophy is all wrong. He's been coming in there to listen to people. And I think he's got the skills to do this. And what I would say, I like the idea of the forum that you're talking about. That's really important because that's really where it starts. It's gotta be about people.
And it's got to be about what people are afraid of. It's got to be about what people see, feel, and so forth. But I think there are organizations of various kinds that are already here. We've got the Chamber of Commerce at a state level. We've got the Itasca Group, which really thinks about planning and things of that kind.
And there are other groups like that where I think it becomes necessary for us to say, are we going to sit here and wait until Minnesota and the surrounding areas health infrastructure collapses? Right. And then say, oh, dear, oh, dear, what could we have done in the past? Too late. Too late.
Right.
So that's what I'm interested in. And I think that it can be done with starting with some leadership that says, this is important. Let's start pulling people together. Let's listen to people. Let's start pulling together. How can the University of Minnesota be engaged in this? How can we engage the private business sectors? how can we engage rural Minnesota, which is so, so, so important.
And we're seeing that almost every day as they lose their health infrastructure. And that's not necessarily from federal funding completely. That's also from, you know, health organizations basically saying we can't afford to offer these services anymore in your little town. You know, that's, I think if we were to get,
a coalition of strong leaders together, and maybe some of our senators and representatives. And I would hope that if we engage some of the politicians, I would hope that it would be very much of a bipartisan effort as well, because this isn't about our politics. This is about our health. And whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, it's the same.
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Chapter 8: How can we foster collaboration in public health moving forward?
So but what are you going to do? Are you going to sit there, you know, look at the headlights or are you going to get up and do something? And I think that it can be done, as I say, with that kind of leadership who can be in leadership when they when you get a critical mass of leaders in this area, it snowballs.
You know, and it really gets bigger and bigger and you got people that are really involved in it and say this is important we need to do it, etc. And I fully understand the state is facing, you know, a biennium upcoming biennium where we're going to be, you know, we're not going to have the resources that we have had in the past. I don't care.
You can still build these relationships and move ahead. You have to move ahead. It's for the people, and you have to figure out how you're going to do that.
And the diseases don't care about your financial situation either.
Absolutely not. They need a laugh. Would that they had an economic sense, but they don't. Right, right.
The other thing, too, is I believe that... You know, maybe it's human nature that we have a tendency to be more, to deal with things right when it's in front of our face. So, you know, for instance, COVID, all of a sudden it hits and then, you know, we go into, you know, high gear on how to deal with it. And now things have settled down some with regards to that.
But, you know, there'll be others. There'll be, you know, and frankly, these infectious diseases are,
um will probably hit us more often than than they did historically in the past if nothing else because we you know we we're worldwide travelers now and um you know so it's easy to have these diseases transported from one country to any to another much easier than it was before and so um we could be seen more of them than perhaps any of us on this show might have even realized
Oh, that's absolutely true. And you saw that in the very first SARS virus that happened. You know, where did that, well, it showed up first in Hong Kong. Then it showed up in Vietnam. Then it showed up in Canada. What? Well, that's jet travel.
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