How to Change the World
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What does Erica Chenoweth say about the effectiveness of violence in producing change?
Before we get going today, I have an exciting update for you. Hidden Brain is now on YouTube. Not the audio podcast, which will continue to be available on Apple, Spotify, and your favorite audio podcast player, but as a brand new standalone video channel. Please check us out. Our first videos include an exploration of the science of bravery, the secret behind artistic masterpieces, and a set of ideas to deal with high pressure situations. Our handle on YouTube is at Hidden Brain. Or just click the link in the show notes for today's episode. Again, that's youtube.com slash at Hidden Brain. Okay, here's today's show. This is Hidden Brain.
How did Erica's early experiences shape her research interests?
I'm Shankar Vedantam. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. Those are the words of the first U.S. President, George Washington, in his inaugural State of the Union address. George Washington knew a thing or two about war. Over four decades of military service, he took part in a number of bloody battles. Among them was the Battle of Trenton, in which American colonists battled German soldiers paid to fight for the British. The battle was depicted in the 2000 film, The Crossing. In scene after scene, the Americans thrust their bayonets into the Germans. They kill others with cannon and musket fire.
What key arguments were made about nonviolent resistance at the workshop Erica attended?
Their enemies repeatedly try to regroup, but are forced to flee. Finally, the Germans, realizing they cannot win, kneel in surrender. These scenes, like many depictions of war, can be hard to watch. But they also force us to face uncomfortable questions. Doesn't Washington's war, and countless others like it, prove that the realists are right, that violence is the most effective means to change, that power does flow from the barrel of a gun? This week on Hidden Brain, the surprising truth about what actually produces radical change and the profound implications for individuals and nations.
Many of us watch movies depicting war or TV shows where detectives save the day by bursting in on the bad guys, guns blazing. These sorts of stories are based on an assumption. Using force might be unpleasant. It might even be immoral.
What surprising findings did Erica and Maria discover about nonviolent vs violent movements?
But it's highly effective, the surest way to get what you want. At Harvard University, political scientist Erika Chenoweth studies whether this common assumption is true when it comes to mass movements for change. Erika Chenoweth, welcome to Hidden Brain.
Thank you so much, Shankar.
Erika, I want to look at your own journey into this area of research. When you were a kid, your mom bought you a book called Zlata's Diary. You were enthralled by this book. What was it about?
Basically, this is the story written by Zlata Filipowicz about what it was like living as a child under siege during the siege of Sarajevo. As a 13-year-old kid, I couldn't help but be moved by the experiences of being a kid that were not going to be available to her or her friends and others because of the war.
What examples of successful nonviolent movements did Erica discuss?
I mean, in many ways, it's like the fascination that many people have had over the years with, you know, the Diary of Anne Frank. It gives you a window into what it's like to go through the experience of war. Later on, I understand you became really interested in the history of World War I. You'd go to the public library with your family and you loved a book about World War I Medal of Honor winners. What was the appeal of the book?
Well, I think I was always really fascinated with World War I. I can't actually remember the origins of the fascination, to be honest, but from the time I can remember, I was looking at military history books, and one that really caught my eye was the one about Medal of Honor winners, in part because it described these situations of heroism and courage, but also these situations of just horrific wartime conditions, trench warfare and the types of experiences that people had just serving in the war on and off the battlefield.
As an undergrad, I understand you took a military science class. So it sounds like you were developing a real interest here in military history.
Yes, I was interested in potentially serving in the Army after graduating from college.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What does Erica Chenoweth say about the effectiveness of violence in producing change?
0:00–0:48
2
How did Erica's early experiences shape her research interests?
0:48–1:36
3
What key arguments were made about nonviolent resistance at the workshop Erica attended?
1:36–2:54
4
What surprising findings did Erica and Maria discover about nonviolent vs violent movements?
2:54–3:47
5
What examples of successful nonviolent movements did Erica discuss?
3:47–5:16
6
How does the context influence acts of courage according to Ranjay Gulati?
5:16–6:20
7
What psychological factors contribute to our ability to act bravely?
6:20–7:39
8
How can individuals cultivate courage in their everyday lives?
7:39–1:30:21