Is Russia a Fascist State? (Part 2)
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Is Russia truly a fascist state or just a kleptocratic regime?
Hi everyone, based here in Kyiv, Ukraine. My name is Mark Maknemi, co-founder and co-owner of UBM Network and host of this podcast, History in the Making, The War in Ukraine. Welcome back to part two of the show with Doctor Cuzio and Doctor Garner. We will now pick up where we left off, and to start I will play devil's advocate here and question whether Russians actually buy into this idea uh of fascism, of modern Russia, and if Russia is indeed a fascist state. You mentioned Mark Galeati and some others. So playing devil's advocate here, that's what I wanna get into maybe is how much does society, or more importantly, I suppose, the criminal elite, the decision makers, the influencers, how much do they actually buy into this?
Because people who don't say so convincingly that Russia's a fascist state. They say Russia's not a fascist state really because yes, Russia's extremely nationalistic. That's undeniable. Yes, it's in a highly repressive Autocracy, that's clear. But it still does function more like a kleptocratic mafia state filled with these corrupt, greedy criminals than an actual true ideological fascist state. So basically, he and many other political scientists saying that Putin's Russia lacks that true ideological element. But obviously you hold a an opposing view, but so why do you say that's wrong? Like why do you feel that's no that ideological element? Element is much stronger.
Those who oppose the fascism thesis. Frequently point out, I think the kleptocracy example is a good one. Well no, the guys in power just want money and wealth and power and they're corrupt. Yeah, sure. Of course they want money and power and and they are corrupt. And some of them probably don't believe in this sort of stuff at all. But the way that one has to examine a system of government and an ideological system is not just on what re people really believe or not, because it's impossible to ascertain it. And there is a lot of research on the totalitarian systems of the twentieth century that people say one thing and do another and could believe multiple things at once. So for example, victims of Stalinism who simultaneously support Stalin.
Yeah. That's not makes sense on the surface. So why can't you be kleptocratic? But also believe that a violent war is going to shake things up and rejuvenate the nation. There's no reason why these two things can't coexist. And in particular, we political scientists, and especially again, this goes back to this first question about can fascism exist in the twenty first century, we frequently create this sort of ideal model of fascism, as it were. And I I don't use ideal in the sense of sort of something to be aspired to, but in the sense of something that has to be a particular way, has to be perfect. And we don't do this. And one of the authors in the volume cre uh that we edited wrote a very good chapter on this.
We don't put forward this standard about, for example, democracy. We don't say that you're not a perfect democracy, because nobody is a perfect democracy, therefore you're not a democracy. We say that there are sliding scales, assessment matrices, there are boxes to be hit, things that can be done, and we also recognize that democracy has changed over the years. For example, we might have this issue, and this is something that I've dealt with extensively in my work, that Typically fascism was in the past associated with mass mobilization. Now it's very clear that the Russian population is not mass mobilized, in the sense that they are growing tired of war. There wasn't mass support for this most extreme genocidal version of the ideology that we're talking about ever.
substantial parts of the population, sure, were buying into it, but not everybody at all, that's very clear. However, The state recognises that in the twenty first century, because of the way that social media in particular can deliver highly tailored narratives and highly tailored realities to different groups of people, you no longer need to mobilize your entire population.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Is Russia truly a fascist state or just a kleptocratic regime?
0:09–4:56
2
How do scholars differentiate modern Russian fascism from historical fascist movements?
4:56–9:54
3
What role does propaganda play in shaping Russian public opinion about the war?
9:54–14:04
4
How is the Russian state using social media to indoctrinate youth into militarism?
14:04–17:17
5
What evidence shows the decline of support for Putin’s war among Russian citizens?
17:17–21:36
6
How does the Russian government’s repression compare to Soviet‑era authoritarianism?
21:36–25:00
7
What are the possible scenarios for the end of the war and Russia’s political future?
25:00–29:42
8
Why do experts describe Putin’s regime as a ‘schizo‑fascist’ or ‘schizo‑Nazi’ state?
29:42–34:03
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from History in the Making: The War in Ukraine
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