Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That is Mallory Rubin. It is season four, part two of Buffy. And guess what? Giles has an acoustic guitar. I repeat, Giles has an acoustic guitar. Mallory Rubin, how you doing? To quote Buffy, you get fang, I'll get horny. Oh my God.
Are you mentally prepared to talk about all of the horny Giles moments in the back half of season four of Buffy Vampire Slayer? Yes, I am actually. Guess what? We'll enumerate them all right after this. All right, so this is part two of season four of Buffy. The Buffy rewatch continues apace.
I got the predictable, she can only be herself text from Mallory Rubin last night where she was like, sad. It's going to be over in a couple seasons. I mean, you still have like, what, 60 episodes of Buffy still to watch. So I think you'll be okay. But yeah, we're past the midway at this point.
We are. We're past the midway point. I'm pre-grieving. I'm mourning. Then you got a text message. Within 10 seconds of that one, I was like, maybe I'll just watch Angel season one next week.
She's like, maybe I'll just watch all of Angel because she's an absolute maniac. Oh, boy. We did get mixed responses from our listeners about whether or not you should. It didn't seem like there was a consensus. So... As someone who's constantly anxious about your work-life balance, I don't think you should rewatch all of Buffy.
But as we were talking last night, it is, you know, as we'll get into some of the Faith episodes in the back half of season four of Buffy, the crossover stuff does start to feel a little bit more onerous than it did at the beginning of the season. So I understand why you were like, what am I missing? What happened when Buffy went to Los Angeles, et cetera?
So I get it. Yes, I felt the... And previously on Angel... really activated my OCD in a major way. And of course, I had previously watched this entire season in full, but sitting down to do the prep and revisiting the episodes, I was like, man, And also we had just talked about it in the part one pod. Should I be dipping into Angel?
I still feel like just... And I consulted Carlos on whether he had just gone directly to the relevant Angel episodes or watched it all. So I'm trying to get feedback from all parties. Obviously, you were my guide in all things Buffy and frankly, all things life. And so I defer to your wisdom. I felt that like... Oh, my goodness. What am I missing?
Will I be able to carry on and appreciate this in full if I'm not also watching 22 episodes of Angel in parallel with every 22-episode Buffy season? But we'll see. We'll see how it goes.
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Chapter 2: What are the key themes in the back half of Season 4?
This is it. This is farewell to chronologically. That's right. I'll see it tomorrow. You'll see it tomorrow. That airs before this one. But chronologically, this is the last time I'll be in this office. So thank you, Gray Walls. You did your best. And I'll be in studio for the most part, unless both of us get the plague again or something like that.
We get sick a lot. We'll definitely be recording from our respective homes occasionally. My question is, will I still, in your new setup, be able to occasionally see Bug come in behind you and roll around on the floor? Good. That's all I need.
You better believe it. All right. What are we covering today? We already mentioned some spoilers, but just in case this is helpful at all, here's a spoiler warning. We're talking about season four, episode 13, The Ion Team.
roll your eyes grown, it's the initiative, through episode 22, Restless, a very strange and unusual season finale for Buffy, a kind of sort of like, a very special episode of Buffy that's like tacked on to the end of the season is sort of what Restless feels like. I'm excited to talk to you about that.
So that is The I in Team, Goodbye Iowa, This Year's Girl, Who Are You, Superstar, Where the Wild Things Are, Newman Rising, The Yoko Factor, Primeval, and Restless. So many two-parters in this stretch here. It's very like Dr. Who-y kind of set up here. Anything else you want to say before we get to sort of our opening snapshot? No, I'm excited to dive in. Let's do it. Buffy season four.
Okay, so something that we had talked about in our part one is I promised you I would get my ducks in a row about sort of what the initial plan for the season was versus what we got because we both agree that the initiative as a plot line is not really a stunner and sort of what happened with the big bad and all of that this season.
So the answer is there isn't like a clear, clear answer because there's some conflicting reports. But what... Lindsey Krauss, who played Professor Maggie Walsh, said on my pal Jenny and Kristen's podcast, Buffering Podcast, only a couple of years ago, was like, contrary to popular belief, I did not ask to leave Buffy mid-season. That was sort of the story that went around for a while.
Two weeks before I was killed off, Joss called me and was like, we're going to kill you off. So she was like, that was not my call to make. They decided they didn't want me. Here's a Marty Noxon quote from, I think, around season six is when she gave this quote to Entertainment Weekly.
She said about Professor Maggie Walsh potentially being the big bad of season four, she said there were a lot of things that we were going to do and never did. In season four, Maggie was going to be much more of a mother figure for Riley. Introducing to another girl to lure him away from Buffy, we thought it would create some Shakespearean jealousy. And then we went, eh. Forget it.
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Chapter 3: How does the initiative plotline impact character development?
Yes. And she's the one who's in that great shot of her sitting amidst all of the commandos of their briefing in her pink halter that she's worn patrolling many times. Just sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a great visual. So I like those layers, though, of just sort of like...
Buffy asking questions, but not asking the bigger picture, even some of the bigger picture questions that a Willow and a Giles are asking. And also, sorry, the last thing I'll say about this is, like, so much of the emotional... Yes, in theory, the emotional thrust of the final couple episodes are...
buffy's greatest strength as a slayer is her friends is the fact that she's not one girl in all the world but part of a team and a family and they've explored that before but this is even more overt etc etc like all of that is interesting but a lot of the back half is about riley's emotional journey like it's it's riley's choice and it's riley's like agitation and disillusion and all sorts like that and i'm just like a not compelled by him and b i want this show to be about buffy yeah at the end of the day so
Yeah, exactly. I think that's the main crux for me as well. Again, I like when Buffy... It feels human to me to make this big declaration about your life and then sort of be compelled back into another version of that thing. I think that's human. That's normal. I agree with you that the speed and haste with which Buffy wants inside those doors is like...
what's going on here exactly feels right and interesting. I don't think that Buffy leaving the Watchers Council at the end of season three means that for the rest of time and perpetuity, she would never be or should never be interested in participating in a larger force.
I think that the fact that so much of Buffy's storyline in the back half of this season is tied up in Riley's journey, Adam, and the initiative is just a little bit less compelling because we're watching some really wonderful stuff, I think, with Anya and Xander and Willow and Tara and Giles. And they're in part because they're like a little bit on the outside of that looking in.
I do think that the, like I've had some sort of awakening about the differences between
And entwinements in, like, being a follower or being a leader and the way that Buffy is then kind of imparting that wisdom and helping somebody else have the scales fall off of their eyes through the wisdom that she has learned, like, not just because someone else told her, but from her firsthand experience, is interesting.
Riley's just not an interesting enough character to carry 10 episodes of that as a journey. I think, like... The overall connection, and this is obviously not just true with the back half of the season. This is true for Buffy writ large and as part of what's so compelling about it. But this is like a very identity-driven stretch of story. And I love that.
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Chapter 4: What insights do the hosts provide about Tara and Willow's relationship?
Yeah. I think in this stretch, like, you know, something like after Spike is... has worked his manipulation, right? And has incepted all of them. And we see the way that each of them responds to that. And Xander's just like, it's just to be bowled over, like unable to get out of bed because he's like, these people like who are the most important thing in the world to me don't need me.
You know, I thought it was like, and then Anya coming in in that sequence and like she is, I basically couldn't keep, you know, we have an Anya category again today. And I was like, it's going to be hard to keep this like under 20. It's just such an incredible stretch of episodes from her. She's hysterical. She kills me every time I'm just cackling so much my ribs hurt. She's smart. She's sharp.
She's sexy. She's blunt. She's direct. All of it. The depth of love and comfort in that moment when she's just like... you know, you're a good person and a good boyfriend and I'm in love with you. Like what they think of you shouldn't matter. And of course it matters more than anything in the world because they're the closest people to him. But it's just, I don't know.
It felt like such an authentic evolution of a relationship for them. So I really, really love that. But then it's like still Xander. So you go into the dreamscapes of Restless and he's like, Joyce, Joyce wants to fuck Tara and Willow or hook it up in the back of my ice cream truck. Like it's just the full Xander experience, but really well calibrated. So I, I quite enjoyed it. Yeah.
Um, I love also, I love that scene. Like when she snuggles him and says like, you're a good boyfriend, I love you. But also that it opens with her just like lifting up the quilt and like the eyebrow raise when she sees his, uh, his dick under the covers. And she's like, you know, You can't go down to the unemployment office like that. They won't even interview you if you're naked.
Like, she's just... She's perfect all the time. She's amazing. I love her.
Me too.
All right, I want to do a quick Tara check-in with you. Okay. I mentioned sort of offhandedly on the pod last week that I'm not a huge Tara fan. This really... seemed to perturb people. And I understand why, because the Venn diagram of Joanna's interests of like which stuff go and like queer representation, like Tara's smack dab at the center of it. Plus, you know, Miss Kitty Fantastico is here.
You know, there's a cat involved. Like, you know, it should be very much my shit. And I will say when I first watched the show, and I think largely because there was just so little representation for, for queer couples in this way, I was really into the Willow and Tara stuff. I think, you know, there's a part of me that would always feel a little, um, touchy about it because I love Oz so much.
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Chapter 5: What significant moments does Faith experience upon returning to Sunnydale?
I have in episode 15, This Year's Girl, Faith finding Buffy on campus after she's woken up. She's had this interaction with the... The civilian, seemingly, who's able to just walk into that, like, secret... Derelict observation floor at the hospital. Has learned how much time has passed, that Sunnydale High is a ruin, that the mayor is dead, and finds Buffy.
And I just thought this scene was... I think her entrance to that scene is... On...
Incredible.
Unbelievable. Incredible. Buffy's like, I've been looking for you. Faith says, I've been standing still for eight months, B. How hard you look. And I'm like, I am locked in. Like, we're about to be treated to something delicious and excellent. And we were. Five by five. That's the thing about a coma. You wake up all rested and rejuvenated and ready for payback. So much for pleasantries, huh?
What'd you think? I'd wake up and we'd go for tea? You tried to gut me, Blondie. Like, I was just like, we are so back. It was amazing. I loved when Buffy said, because they're on campus, there are just people walking by going to class and... Buffy's like, Faith, these are innocent people. And Faith says, no such animal. Yeah.
And Buffy says, I guess it was too much to hope that you'd use your downtime to reflect and grow. And then this is where Faith invokes Angel, which you mentioned earlier, and Riley and the dreams. Hysterical Faith line here. That and some stuff about cigars in a tunnel. Iconic. But tell me, college girl, what does it mean? And
This is like a part of why—so, you know, they will quickly trade some punches, and then the cops show up, and Faith will flee. So this is more about a fight of intention and vitriol and words, right? But Faith is on the attack, even just finding—like, they're both looking for each other, but Faith has found her. She's observed them through the window at Giles's, right? Yeah.
And so Faith is very much like the aggressor here. And then Buffy comes in and you're just like, right, never for a second, never for long is Buffy going to be on the back foot. So when Faith says, tell me, college girl, what does it mean? And even just college girl, like there's all that jealousy, right? To me... Mostly that you still mouth off about things you don't understand.
And I just thought that was epic.
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Chapter 6: How does the dynamic between Buffy and Faith unfold during their confrontation?
Like, really, really great.
I think that's a clear pick for, like, verbal fight. I think you're absolutely right. Also, like, the comedy of Willow trying to, like, be involved a bit. Great stuff. Yeah. uh, I gave it in terms of physical fight. I gave it to the Buffy and Faith destroy the summer's home. Um, because I'm always worried about that craftsman. As you know, I care about it deeply.
They break a lot of furniture, poor Joyce. Um, but, uh, yeah, Buffy and Faith fighting their way through the house. I thought it was really good. Oh, you know, like Buffy's entrance to the window, the like, hi mom, hi honey. Like all of that sort of stuff is really, really good. And then their fight throughout the house, I thought was great.
Yeah, just that whole stretch of this season is amazing. I loved, too, like one of my kind of related runner-up smuggle sort of between our two picks is Faith and Joyce, you know, when Faith is holding Joyce captive in her bedroom. That scene is electric. That scene is so good. Holy shit.
And to the point from earlier about how part of why I found these Faith episodes so rewarding is because the history and the tension and the ferocity is so palpable and there's not instant reconciliation and you feel all of that trauma and all of those wounds in this Faith Joyce moment too, when she's just like, Buffy's too busy to remember dear old mom.
And even though Buffy does smash through that window and come to save her mom, in those couple of moments, you're like,
And then later, later as Sarah, you know, as played by Sarah in the next episode when she's like, I knew it. She hasn't been home.
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Chapter 7: What emotional weight does the character of Faith carry in her interactions?
Like, you know, she was right. And she's like, you have this, you have this mom and you just like, don't even know what you're ignoring. Like, I would kill to have this craftsman and have this cool mom and all this sort of stuff like that.
Yeah. Yeah, it's that great combo of like taking for granted the things that Faith herself lacked and also just like really like luxuriating in any reminder that Buffy isn't as perfect as other people think. You know, it's just so good.
All right. Let's see. What do we have next? Oh, great. Great for me. Horniest clip. Horniest moment. I have a clip. Let's play it.
Even you, Spike. I could ride you at a gallop until your legs buckled and your eyes rolled up. I've got muscles you've never even dreamed of. I could squeeze you until you popped like warm champagne and you'd beg me to hurt you just a little bit more. And you know why I don't? Because it's wrong.
Tell me your thoughts and feelings when you first saw that scene, please.
Very powerful, very memorable, very impactful. Thrilled to tell you that that's also one of my clips today for another category. It's that good. Very of a piece with what we were talking about last pod in celebrating the genius of something blue and like getting to see these characters and these performers just have this.
Marster's once again making a meal out of this moment when he's just like when he does that like head tilt like pull towards her. I just feel like he's like he's like really and he's talked about this. really intentionally showing the writers, the producers, like, you want more of this. You want more of Spike and Buffy in close proximity. And I'm like, yes, we do.
So do we. And yeah, so it's perfect because it gives us a little taste of something forbidden between Buffy and Spike, but also it is faith driving Buffy's body there. And those words are faiths. And it is such an, I mean, this is a very sexual stretch for Buffy, but that is such an overtly
sexual faith approach there that it's just, it's just, and I mean, Spike looks like he is, has just melted, even though he ends that with like, you know, we're going to have a confrontation at the end of that exchange. In those moments, he is a lost to her completely.
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Chapter 8: How does the podcast wrap up the discussion on character relationships and future expectations?
come up behind Joyce and sort of reach around to sample her snacks. As it were. As it were. You sure you don't want to join us? And I was just like...
You're like, somebody call Olivia, get your man.
Time to steam clean another couch, folks. That was just really very, very powerful. So some runners-up, but that had to be my pick.
Some runners-up I have is Spike in Giles' drag in Restless on the swing set. Very important to me. Magical. Yeah. Tara and Willow's sweaty sex magic, of course, very, very important. And then also the pillow book Tara moment when Willow is sort of like painting on her back. That whole stretch also very, very horny.
Yes, that is quite horny. Yeah, on the Willow-Tara front in episode 14 when Willow tells Tara, like, I hope you don't think I just come over for the spells. That's a great... That's wonderful. And yeah, on the magic front, the panting and moaning from Willow in episode 16, very memorable.
And the magic they've created forms literally an O over them. You're like, eh.
Boy, does it. I see. Boy, does it. I think... we've talked a lot about the Faith-Buffy body swap, but I think it is undeniably horny. And we talked a lot in the episode three pods about the sexual energy and draw between Faith and Buffy. And so... When Faith is in Buffy's body.
Now, look, everything, to be clear, everything that Faith does with Buffy's body is like invasive and fucked up and wrong. Yeah. Using Buffy's body to have sex with Riley is wrong and horrible. I'll go back to that in another category.
We believe in informed consent. Not good. It was not present in that scene. Terrible.
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