The Devil has returned, and he brought two of his friends with him. Mal and Jo return to break down the Season 1 finale of 'Daredevil: Born Again' (05:12). They dive into the elements that made this finale great and discuss the return of Frank Castle, Karen adding a spark, and what they would like to see from the next season, coming soon. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal and Oscar De La Luz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts and what is the purpose of this episode?
Greetings and welcome to House of R, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. It is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to our favorite Freeport, Red Hook, but also back into the House of R. Joining me today, reminding me that there's nothing in this world a good cup of coffee can't fix. It's my favorite punisher, Joanna Robinson.
Hi, I'm Joanna Robinson, and she didn't say it, but that's Mallory Rubin. You didn't say your name for the first time ever. Hello.
So tired.
It's a very special day. It's a very special day. We're here to crunch. Okay, here's a quick question for you. Yeah. As Frank Castle is crunching on some, I don't know, pain relievers, one assumes.
Yeah, I don't like chewing pills, as you know, from our White Lotus conversations.
Were you thinking of... Tim Ratliff and his dry pill swallowing.
I was indeed.
I was like, I retract every negative thing I said about Tim Ratliff because at least he was swallowing and not fucking crunching a pill. Anyway, is this what people come for on a Daredevil pod? Good question.
Who's to say? I don't stand with Frank Castle on the pill chewing, but I do stand with him on the deep and abiding love for a good cup of coffee. That's true. We are here, in case you can't tell, to talk about the finale of Daredevil Born Again Season 1. But... Before we try to figure out whether they are, in fact, calling Matt Nightgown Man now, some quick programming reminders.
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Chapter 2: What are the upcoming Ringerverse podcast schedules and content?
Going to do these in two little buckets because we're heading into a big stretch where we've got Last of Us and Andor happening at the same time. Yes. Here's the slate. Going to run through it very quickly. House of R deep dives for The Last of Us, Mondays. Mondays, baby. Midnight, boys. Pew, pew. We'll be potting in instant reaction fashion to The Last of Us on Monday.
Sunday night, Monday, we'll see. Early in the week, top of the week. Nice. The Watch, we'll be checking in on Mondays. On the Prestige TV podcast, Joe and Rob will be checking in on Wednesday nights, Pacific time, Thursday mornings if you're on the East Coast. And Button Mash, Ben and Daniel will be checking in with a gamer's guide on Thursdays. We will have coverage across the ringer.com.
What a great website. It is a full court press. We love The Last of Us. We can't wait to cover the rest of the season. Check out our episode one pods if you haven't yet. Those are all waiting for you already on the fades.
So good. I'm so pleased that we're back in The Last of Us territory. And I had such a good time recording The Last of Us episode one with you.
Same. The best. I'm like despondent we only have six left. I know. But also thrilled we have six more to talk about. And then at the same time, we will at long last be diving back into Andor because season two of Andor starts next week. Three episodes of Andor are going to be airing every week, and we will be there to cover them.
Here at the House of R, we will be doing our Andor deep dives, and they will be deep. I mean, they will be deep. How deep? Who can say? But Tony Gilroy knows.
Tony Gilroy knows. On Thursday afternoon,
most likely, is when those will be hitting your feeds. And the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, will be checking in on Andor on Wednesdays. Obviously, Chris and Andy will be talking about their favorite piece of Star Wars over on The Watch as well. What a great time to be us. Jo, we're also only two weeks away from Thunderbolts. Thrilling. The most important film of the year, Thunderbolts? Exactly. Cool.
Just so. Cool story. Let me ask you a quick question. How can the people follow along?
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Chapter 3: What is the overall impression of Daredevil: Born Again Season 1 finale?
I've never felt more seen. That was great. Just a great moment. I love it.
It me and 95% of Los Angeles drinking oat milk only. Love it. Great stuff. All right, Joe, it is time to pod and we are going to begin as always with our opening snapshot. Episode nine. Straight to hell. I feel like you should say it in your Fisk Vanessa voice. I feel like that's the only way you can say it. Episode 9.
Straight to hell.
There it is.
There it is. Vanessa. Vanessa.
Directed, once again, by Aaron Moorhead and Justin Benson. Written by Heather Belson and Dario Scardapane. Runtime, 59 minutes. This checked in at a full chunky hour. Chunky. Robust. Robust. Joe, before we dive in, we're going to be going broadly chronologically through the finale today. Give us your quick thoughts, little table setters here, amuse-bouche of takes on three things.
The finale itself. Yeah. The season overall. Yeah. and your feelings, anticipation level, relationship to the impending 2026 release of Daredevil Born Again Season 2, based on how Season 1 concluded? Yeah, great question. Thank you so much for asking me. Hey, you bet.
Straight to hell. Straight to hell. First and foremost, I hate to get ahead of ourselves. This is really the Last of Us thing, but do you remember how, when we recorded the Last of Us episode, Two weeks or nine years ago, whatever that was. I was talking about how in the video game, instead of a bear outside of the market, Ellie and Dina see a moose.
And I was like, yeah, but you can't really, can you really make a good food pun with moose?
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Chapter 4: How does the finale handle the characters of Benjamin 'Dex' Poindexter and Vanessa Fisk?
Even when the story didn't make full sense or we had to deal with characters we didn't like, Heather Glenn wasn't all that great in the comics either. It felt like such a gift to be back in Daredevil's world and having scenes like the Frank and Matt conversation gave me glimmers of hope for the future. It doesn't hurt that Charlie Cox positively oozes charm, regardless of the quality of writing.
So Ashton was pointing out that in conjunction with this return to Daredevil on TV, Ashton was sort of reading through all the comics again and was just sort of like, you know, even a patchy Daredevil comic is like a Daredevil comic. So I thought that was interesting. And then Katie wrote in with a little bit of a critique.
I do think, without question, the Frank stuff enhanced this last episode, without question. Yeah. Did it at time feel like Dario, who, to remind everyone, was the Punisher showrunner, was a little more interested in Frank than he was in Matt in this final episode? Yeah. Maybe. And so Katie says, some moments made this episode not feel like a Daredevil show.
I loved all the castle content, but not if it means we're spending too much time away from Matt, which also leads into my final point that this episode felt like a great mid-season episode, but not a finale. It was like we were brought right to the inflection point of the conflict, and then we were given a wall. Right. We're missing a major showdown between Daredevil and Kingpin.
But I guess that's more illuminating of the fact that the original creators intended this to be an 18-episode season. So that's a good way to think about season two. This being sort of like, not in the cynical, Netflix is going to cut...
squid game in half for you know whatever reasons but for creative reasons trying to fix the flow of the season we do wind up with kind of a half of a season which is not the end of the world but like I can you can kind of feel it inside of this episode so um Mallory what do you think about any of that or what do you think about this episode or this season as a whole yeah I uh
I really loved the finale. I liked episode eight quite a bit, and I thought this was even stronger and just a wonderful way to propel us forward into a season two that will be crafted in full by the folks who gave us a strong end to this season. So that's really exciting. I'm excited. They pulled me back in. I'm quite looking forward to season two and to the Punisher special.
I think to the point in Katie's email, which is totally valid, that it all worked for me so well, I think, because I'm such a sucker for the John Barenthal, Frank Castle performance in general and just will take literally any of it that I can get. But also because we weren't with... Frank on his own.
I mean, frankly, it's an area where I think a lot of the valid critiques of the season, which is just we never spent time with anybody away from Matt or away from Fisk, really. Um... worked in this sense because the return of Frank was really oriented through his relationship with Red and through Matt's point of view of Frank and Frank's point of view of Matt.
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Chapter 5: What is Matt Murdock's condition and relationship status after the finale events?
I mean, he's literally bullseye, so it makes sense. But I'm still astonished by the philosophy he was able to get with that tooth spit. Really astonishing stuff. I agree. It was really affecting to see the sorrow. The way that he said, because when she invokes Foggy's name, he of course remembers. And the way that he said... escape the past, do we?
Like, this whole fallacy of the idea dating all the way back to his therapy when he was a kid that you could ever really move beyond any sort of perilous or damaging circumstance that was just so deeply upsetting. And then, of course, you know, we remember season three of Daredevil and the way that...
Fisk manipulated Dex in order to bring him under his thrall and into his employ in the way that Dex then rebelled against Fisk in the, you know, multi-showdown. Everybody, including Vanessa, just sort of standing there in the same room at the end. A climactic brawl, like, turned on Fisk because of Julie and what he had learned while keeping her frozen corpse in the passenger seat of his car.
Joe can fix him. It's fine.
We all have things to work through.
We all have sentimental keepsakes, okay? Indeed, yeah. You collect posters. Dex keeps frozen corpses around. It's fine.
You love a Funko Pop. He loves a frozen corpse.
I do. The way that he invoked Fisk, like, is he a part of this? And Vanessa saying, it's not about him. We're not in touch right now. He's off in another show. You probably haven't watched it, but it's not about him. It's about me. It's about what I need. And the way that Dex said rightly, like he's always a part of this, that looming specter of the kingpin.
It was a good tonal note to open the episode on.
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Chapter 6: What does the return of Wilson Fisk and Vanessa signify in the finale?
When we do this closing montage and everyone's in their, like, I don't know, character poster poses or whatever. Yeah. The golden light bathing your guy, Daniel Blake, was just truly astounding. Really astonishing stuff.
He went from enthusiastic dipshit who tells his boss he was high on ketamine and accidentally let spill the city secrets to genuinely intimidating... mini boss with a quickness.
That being said, I liked the BB development in last week's episode. Great to know that. Overdue. Yeah. Good to know.
Glad it happened. Overdue. Thanks, journalism. Matt gets a little sip of water and then he's immediately ready to dive into detective mode. Kirsten and Heather both have strong reactions to this, but there is a distinction, right? When Matt is running through his questions, is Dex still at large? Okay, Vanessa ordered the hit. Foggy knew he had to win. Oh, Melvinese.
Kirsten mentions the motion to dismiss. Kirsten is like, Matt, I'm worried. Later she'll say, I'm really glad you're okay, but we gotta have a major talk when you get through this. But she at least engages. She gives him some information. Heather's response to this is just, She's beside herself. She goes to the chair in the corner. She puts her face in her hand. She's sighing deeply.
She is not aligned with Matt, and she is clocking that now in a way that is no longer something either of them can ignore. And I guess to their credit, they both just say it pretty plainly to each other. Matt tells her, like, I'm sorry that you don't believe me. But this is true. And then she appears to just quiet quit her relationship with Matt Murdock.
She's like, maybe... She's like, I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'm going to go join the mayor's administration.
My hope for Heather... Yes. Who sucks and has sucked and, like, whatever. My hopes aren't high. But my hope had been last week when she, like, collapsed to the ground next to Matt Yeah. And saw Fisk just high fucking tail it out of there. No one gave a shit about Matt Murdock and no one gave a shit about her. Yeah. That she would be like, huh. I wonder who the hero in this scenario is.
Is it the guy who dove in front of a bullet for someone? Or is it the guy who just ran, like, shrieking from the room? But no, Heather likes power, it seems to me. I don't know. And I'm interested. You know what? I'm a little interested in Heather's villain era. So if that's what Heather wants to lean into in season two, I'm here for it.
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Chapter 7: How is the political and corrupt environment depicted in the finale?
No, you are actually, this is a tactical. Yeah. It was nice to see how all of those little strands of Red Hook fit together here. This is my Daredevil born again version of me saying repeatedly, as we talked about DNA on Yellow Jackets, I am not a scientist. I'm not a legal expert. So I guess my question on this was like, wait, it's not like, wait, does nobody know this?
I guess I'm confused by that. This idea that Foggy revealing that Red Hook is a Freeport
would she the way that vanessa explains it to dex is like cast an unwanted light on her business right so clearly she thinks this is not something that she wants brought to the fore but my i guess my question is like who is this a secret from maybe other crime lords but like presumably governments and legal bodies but it feels like it feels like it was lost to time similar to like
Like Sam stumbling upon lore in a dusty library somewhere. Just sort of like, yeah, in an obscure document, here's this Freeport information that Vanessa also stumbled across.
Right.
But so did Foggy. The other question is, and I don't know that I know the answer to this. And maybe they said in the season and I forgot, but like the Benny and the truck robbery, like was that more directly related to the crime? So it's like it's not just, oh, this is a Freeport, that knowledge, but that knowledge is directly related to a case that is connected to Vanessa's criminal doings.
Yeah, I think so, given that we then later saw the other truck jacking and that connected to the families all under this umbrella of crime that they're seeking to control. Yeah. Be interested to see how, you know, I liked the way Matt declared it when he and Heather, when he, I just did the opposite thing, when he and Karen are piecing it all together at the end.
Like they're trying to, the Fisks are trying to build and control their own city state. Yeah. And the way that Fisk says it here, it's like, you've been moving millions. We can move billions. Like, I'm the mayor now. And, you know, he put it to Vanessa. He said, I ran to save the city, but opportunities present themselves. Like, this idea of justifying his descent back into his true self.
I also love the diner scene at the beginning of the season. And so many of those ideas came back for both Matt and Fisk here, right? Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What is the significance of Frank Castle's return and his interaction with Matt Murdock?
Very human. And I'm really glad that it's represented here, that we have not just the Bucks and the Daniels, but the Sheilas who- Self-preservation. Compromise. Like the member of the task force, Luke, who later says to Gallo, like, I'm just trying to survive. And like, you know, thinking about, I know this is not a political podcast, but like-
Going back to last week's episode, in the kitchens of the gala, when a guy gets his hand put in the hot oil of the fryer, and Gallo... It's so disturbing now and in fiction to see people... just barrel through reprehensible behavior without... While even someone is shouting to them, these are the consequences, and they're like, what fucking consequences? And that's like... Yeah, that's not real.
That's how I feel. I feel every single time I open another, like, New York Times headlines and they're like, the Trump administration has decided to defy the courts. It's like, just, like, what consequences? Like, and how can you stop me? How can you stop me if I don't believe in the rules we've established as a society? And this is what this Fisk administration is just sort of like...
What rules?
Right.
What consequences?
Yeah. I mean, we hear from Matt at the end of this episode, Matt Murdock, Daredevil, the man without fear, invoking that kind of language for the city. The city without fear. Right. Well, the oppositional force of the Fisk administration as a tyrant without fear, an administration without fear. Totally. Totally.
They're not fearing that any challenge will ultimately do anything but crumble, either because of the desire to survive, self-preservation, like what we see from Sheila, or because Fisk believes that he will prove stronger, that he will either be able to use sheer force or or cunning or money or any other lever of power to remove an obstacle from his way.
So saying to Sheila, like using Sheila to eliminate Gallo, these two obstacles in different forms is like, from his perspective, from Fisk's perspective, just perfect poetic justice in all respects. Like to say to her, well, you know, in business, there's always a tipping point. And he's like theoretically talking about the city and the state of play right now.
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