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Chapter 1: What does it take to build a great career in today's environment?
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We've all been there, feeling stuck with a problem because no one in our life can relate or because the one person we need to talk to won't or can't. That's where Proxy comes in.
Chapter 2: How can taking risks lead to a more fulfilling career?
Proxy is a podcast that believes no one is ever completely alone with their problem because somewhere out there is someone who gets it. Maybe they've even experienced the exact same thing as you. On Proxy, Yo-Wei Sha, former co-host of Invisibilia, scours the world for that perfect stranger for you to talk to and help you get less stuck.
Plus, we just had Yo-Wei on our show, so if you enjoyed the episode featuring her, I think you're going to love her podcast. Proxy is a podcast that constantly surprises. You've got your thorny, impossible-to-solve cases of heartbreak or family discord, but then also these funny, weird little problems like the woman whose internal narrator never stops talking.
Subscribe to Proxy wherever you get your podcasts. New cases every other Tuesday. This is How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. Today on the show, our guest is Molly Graham. And Molly is, among many other things, a very successful business person, a writer, and the new host of Ted's Work Life podcast.
So we're going to be talking to her about how the rules for building a great career have evolved and what it takes to navigate this new work landscape. You know, when I was searching for my first job, I really, really, really wanted to write for a newspaper. I was positive that I wanted to be a traditional newspaper journalist. But then everywhere I applied,
They were cutting positions rather than hiring. I couldn't get a job and I needed a job that would let me pay my bills. So I just started applying for anything and everything. And I ended up getting a position teaching English abroad.
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Chapter 3: What is the 'stairs' concept in career progression?
And then I got a job teaching at an elementary school in Boston. And I could never, ever, ever have predicted that starting there would lead me to be here hosting this podcast and talking to you right now. In fact, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned, maybe the only career lesson that I feel totally confident standing behind is that you cannot predict how things will turn out.
Like it or not, you are going to be surprised. So how do you help people to figure out how to navigate a career path if you can't possibly know what's coming next? Well, that is exactly the kind of challenge that Molly lives for.
To get us started, here's a clip from Molly's TED Talk where she's addressing one of the biggest misconceptions that people have about their jobs and their career choices. Here's Molly.
There's a lot of pressure around what it takes to build a great career. And it all comes back to this idea that you're supposed to know what you want to do. It's an idea that I like to call the stairs. Here's how the stairs go. You show up in college, and you're supposed to know what you want to major in. That major is supposed to lead you to your first job.
And then you get another job, and you get promoted and promoted and promoted forever. The best part about the stairs is safety and security. It feels like you know what you need to do to get ahead. The worst part of the stairs is that it's like a weird video game that you can get stuck inside of for years. The stairs will make you feel like your self-worth is tied to your title.
or your last performance rating, or your next promotion.
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Chapter 4: How can we redefine success beyond traditional metrics?
But the truth is that the stairs are an illusion. These days, excellent careers are not built by excellent stair climbers.
Okay, we're going to figure out how to get off the stairs and into a great job or a great series of jobs right after this break. But first, my job includes the requirement of reading you these podcast stats.
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Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.
I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.
We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.
You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program.
Listen to A Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts.
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Chapter 5: What is the J curve and how does it apply to career changes?
We're talking with Molly Graham about how to build a great career, whether you are just starting out or you're many years in.
Hi, I'm Molly Graham. I'm the new host of Ted's podcast, Work Life. And I'm also a company builder, a writer, a community builder, and some other things that I'm still trying to figure out.
Well, Molly, I'm so glad I'm getting to talk to you. I'm not just because we are in the, you know, Ted siblings now in the podcast world. But also because I think you do such interesting work and you think about work in such an interesting way. And especially for me, a person who's like never had a corporate job. Right.
Like I worked in an elementary school and then I was a comedian and now podcasting like none of these are like regular traditional hierarchy. So I love the way that you talk about a world that is for me like largely foreign in and make it so relatable.
But also you take those lessons that I know are really practical for people who are working in traditional work environments and also make it practical for people like me who are not in traditional work environments.
Well, first, thanks. That's very nice. And second, I'm so fascinated by your path to just like you've done such an interesting job defining like what, what moves you and what feels right to you. And that to me is like the most interesting quest in work.
Well, if people are following me into the wild blue yonder, we all are doomed. So that's my number one takeaway. But I will take the compliment. And let's look at this concept from your TED Talk, which is you talk about this concept called the stairs.
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Chapter 6: How do financial fears influence career decisions?
So can you tell me a little bit about what the stairs are and why you believe that's a career model that we should maybe have in mind as we're thinking about how our career could be going or maybe should be going?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the stairs like I think a lot about folks graduating from college. And I think there's a lot of panic around like finding your first job and and this sense that if you don't get it right, then you're on the wrong path forever. And, you know, we could talk about first jobs a lot.
But but part of the point of like I think what happens when you you do get that first job is you you end up on this this. set of stairs that you didn't even know existed. And, and the idea of the stairs is basically like, it's kind of like our parents' generation. Like at least my dad, like he, he worked in the same place for 40 years.
I feel like when I left my first job, my dad was like, you, you're doing what? Like you're leaving, you're leaving a job, you know? And I, so many of my friends have the same thing with their parents where their parents did the same thing in this, you know, they might've done different jobs in a, in a company, but they were in the same company.
And this is actually a picture someone drew on a whiteboard for me, um, way back in the day where he was sort of like, look, you can stay in the same company and you can walk up these stairs. And it does have kind of a rhythm to it when you're in these bigger companies where like every two years or three years you get promoted and your job changes from Manager one to manager two.
And you end up having this sense, or at least I think that all corporate compensation systems give you this sense of like, if I just keep going up these stairs, somewhere up there is like this pot of gold or like this award or this medal. But in theory, it's like methodical, straightforward, but it's also like...
Both like extremely boring in lots of ways where like I think you can get very stuck in sort of their version of what is successful and what is good. And also in a lot of cases, it doesn't always give you the chance to test yourself.
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Chapter 7: What strategies can help navigate career transitions effectively?
But yeah, that's that's the stairs.
You know, it's interesting because I think for a lot of people, especially coming right out of college or high school, right, there's such a set vision of what success looks like, right? You go to school, you submit your work, your work is graded. There's a clear sense of what a successful grade is, what a failing grade is. You got 100 on a test. You got a 90 on a test. You got an 80.
Those all mean really clear things. And then we get into the work world and we want At least a lot of us really want that same kind of clarity of what success looks like. Like what is an A at my job? What is an A plus at my job? What's an F at my job? And I think it's really challenging for a lot of people to realize like that's just not how the world outside of school works as much.
There isn't one set definition of success.
Totally. And, you know, imagine that for comedians, Chris. Like, what is an A? You know, what is an F?
Totally.
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Chapter 8: How can we find happiness and meaning in our work?
You know, I think, honestly, when I talk to people, especially people who are not already in performing arts and want to be, the hardest part about it that I think is hard to grasp before you do it is that there is no promotion in this job, right? Like, your job title is comedian. And the difference between when you are a completely tamed,
terrible comedian and not making a single cent and not making a single person laugh and when you're hugely successful it's still the same title and so you don't ever have like this um clear i've advanced to the next level it always feels like much murkier than you think it might from the outside
Yeah, totally. And I really think like from the moment you step out of college and whatever, you know, framework that is today for forever, there's always this sense of like, oh, someone has the answer and I just need to find it. Do you know what I mean?
Like someone, like someone else, I just, if I imitate that person or that's, you know, and I always say it actually often feels like there's just like a door that if you could just like get behind the door, then everything will make sense. But then one of the things that happens in life is you like open a door and you like walk through it and you're like, oh shit, there's another door.
Do you know what I mean? And it's like this never ending set of doors. You know, obviously that becomes then like, what is success? And, you know, I always, I think about this a lot for like, you know, so much of the goal in the world of Hollywood and whatever is like, oh, win an Oscar, get this award, whatever. And I'm always like, yeah, but then you win an Oscar.
And then it's like, but then I need to win another Oscar. Like, it's like all these doors that again, you get through it. And you're like, but I'm not, you know, I'm not Julia Roberts, or I'm not Meryl Streep. And like, am I successful? And I think eventually, you really have to like face down that question of like, what is successful to me?
There's an interesting thing where I think the difference between like meaning and value and success. And I would probably put quotes around success because it's like, what do we think of a success, which often just means like making money or having a particular title.
And those actually aren't very often very meaningful or bringing a lot of value to your life, because like you said, you get there and then it's like, well, well, what actually comes next?
You know, I think of those as kind of external definitions of success, meaning they look successful to other people. And I think when I was early in my career, that is how I thought about success. I was like, I'm just going to crush this stuff and get promoted. And other people will. It matters to me what other people think of me. Right. It matters to me that that I've proven myself.
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