Why HR Should Never Lead Training: The Case for Leader-to-Leader Learning with Fidelma Butler, Couchbase

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Recorded22 May 2025

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In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Fidelma Butler, Chief People Officer at Couchbase, a NoSQL cloud database platform company. They talk about how to build effective L&D programs by defining clear leadership standards, focusing resources on senior leaders, and integrating learning into daily work instead of traditional training sessions.Fidelma emphasizes that L&D needs to be agile, continuously evolving, and solve actual business problems rather than existing as a separate "nice-to-have" function.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH Fidelma, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINFidelma: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidelmabutler/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Couchbase: https://www.couchbase.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:39) The L&D Challenge at Scale(01:19) Tailoring L&D to Your Organization(03:00) Defining Good Leadership(06:00) Creating Leadership Language and Framework(08:00) Why L&D Struggles - Making Squishy Things Tangible(10:00) Meeting People Where They Are(12:00) Optimizing L&D for Top Performers(16:32) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(19:30) Engagement Surveys Done Right(25:00) When Surveys Conflict with Leadership Vision(28:00) Leaders Teaching Leaders(31:30) Coaching Strategy and Deployment(35:30) The Future of L&D Roles(39:30) Getting Career Development Wrong(42:30) The Promotion Obsession Problem(46:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

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