Chapter 1: What are the principles of high-intensity training?
When people come to train with me, I said our objective is to get an exercise and go to real muscular failure. You gotta give it more than it's used to. The body does not wanna change, it wants to keep status quo. So you gotta give it a bloody good reason, as we would say in England, to change, right? So you gotta put more stress on the body than it's used to.
And then you need to recover from that. That's the idea, to do enough to stimulate, but not more than that, because this is an overload that you've got to recover from. And the number one thing that I hear from people is, I don't really have time for that. I have a business. I have a family. I said, if you could give me 45 minutes twice a week, that's all you need to do.
And it's not theory, because I've done it. You change your life, literally, with that and a good diet. So... The whole time thing excuses, it's not relevant. I'm not listening.
Chapter 2: How can beginners learn proper mechanics in weight training?
You don't need a lot of time.
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dorian Yates.
Dorian Yates is a legendary six time Mr. Olympia winner who is also considered one of the greatest pioneers of training methods for bodybuilding, health and fitness. He is known for using and recommending low volume, high intensity workouts, meaning very few sets done with maximal focus, perfect form and directed muscle engagement taken to muscular failure and beyond.
Today, Dorian teaches us how the typical person who is not interested in competitive bodybuilding should train for health and fitness and overall best results. We cover muscle building, fat loss, mobility, what forms of cardio are best, when to do them and much more. The advice Dorian provides today is immensely valuable and applicable to everyone, men, women, young and old.
He explains how for most people, the best muscle building and strength results will be achieved by training no more than three and in some cases only two days per week. Dorian also shares valuable insights on how to mentally frame and navigate your life and goals, how to use your hardships as fuel.
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Chapter 3: What insights does Dorian Yates share about his bodybuilding journey?
There's a lot to say about that based on his own experience. but also how to recognize and lean into your natural strengths, how to be practical in choosing what dreams you chase and how to know when to pivot from one endeavor to another. We also discuss cannabis. In fact, even though I, of course, knew he was Dorian and I first connected because of an episode that I did about cannabis.
both the potential benefits of cannabis, as well as the very serious risks that may exist for certain people. Dorian's experience and read of the data on cannabis contrasted with mine. And that led us to an ongoing discussion that we continue today on the podcast. And that has me now reading into some newer studies.
And I promise that I'll update everyone on my take of those studies once I get through them. Oh, yes. And Dorian also took me through a Yates style high intensity workout at Gold's Gym Venice. We trained back, we filmed it, and it's posted to our clips channel. So you can check that out. It's linked in the show note caption.
Chapter 4: What is the relationship between training intensity and recovery?
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dorian Yates. The Dorian Yates.
Welcome. Apparently, yeah. Yeah. Certainly. Big fan for many years. Thanks to you and thanks to Mike Menser and a few at the time, real iconoclasts. I trained differently than everyone around me told me to. And while I never became a competitive athlete at anywhere near the level that you did, certainly, it... Got me the results I wanted so much faster. I feel super healthy and great at 50.
And I really want to talk about this high intensity, low-ish volume training that really can be credited to you. Because for those that don't know the community that you come from, there have been people who have been big proponents of long sessions, many hours in the gym at the opposite extreme.
There's been people such as Mike Menser who have been proponents of very brief, very high intensity, even one set to failure and that's it. And you brought things into some sense of moderation. This is almost like a hybrid.
Yeah. I guess. Yeah, exactly. Between the purest HIT, which... I mean, I didn't come up with the idea. The guy that really initiated the whole thing was Arthur Jones, who was the guy that made the Nautilus machines. And then he passed it on, right? And Mike Mensah made it more popular because Mike Mensah was American champion, Mr. Universe, and he was in the magazines.
And I read Arthur Jones' books, and I think I'm a logical thinker. So it made sense to me.
Mm-hmm.
But if it made sense to me and it didn't work out practically, who cares, you know? So, like yourself, I was kind of training like that and everyone was telling me this is not the way to do it. You need to train more often, do more sets and so on. So I tried it. And... The whole thing with my career, it's a bit like a science experiment in a way that I documented everything.
So I've got every workout. The first time I stepped in the gym and said seriously, okay, I'm going to train and I want to be a competitive bodybuilder and this is how I'm going to change my life. Maybe I'm going to go to the gym or something like that. That was about it at the time. But I said, OK. So I'm tracking everything. My progress is going really well.
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Chapter 5: How did Dorian Yates transition from underdog to champion?
So that's what I wanted them for. That's why I got my underwear on and my socks. Yeah? Because I never think these photos are going to be published, right? But he sent them to Weider. And... The editor at the Wheeler Magazines was Peter McGough. He was English, so we were friends.
So he sent me to Peter McGough, and Peter said, all the guys are coming to the office, and they know that I'm friends with you. So they're, you know, looking for something. So, you know, how's it going? He said, oh, I've got these, very casually, I've got these pictures. Would you like to see them? He said, I put them on the desk. He said, they went white.
They just went... And just stood there shaking the headlight. Okay. It's on for a second then. I mean, six weeks out, everyone gave up when they saw those pictures, more or less.
How did it feel to be, at one point, an underdog, and then you're the winner?
Well, hold on. Before I was a winner, very difficult. because I had this underdog thing. I'm from the streets, and nobody thinks I can do this, and I'm from England, and they're all American, and this and this and this. That's against me, yeah, theoretically. So I thrived on that. You know, fuck you, motivation. As I said, I'm going to show you. So I got second to Lee Haney, but then he retired.
So now the title's open, and logically I'm the favorite.
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Chapter 6: What insights does Dorian share about aging and health?
And actually I struggled with that for a while, like forever. First of all, it was like, I'm the favorite now. I don't have that underdog thing. I don't know what to do now. And then I was like, so I'm probably going to be Mr. Olympia. You know, when I went against Haney, I wanted to try to win, but I was a new guy, and wow. So I can be Mr. Olympia?
And then I just kind of turned it around in my head. Yeah, but why not, man? Somebody's got to be Mr. Olympia. And do you know anybody that's dedicated themselves to the craft
the way you have absolutely not so yeah god damn it i deserve it and this took about a week to like change this whole uh point of view where i was comfortable going in as the favorite because yeah i'm gonna win so i should be the favorite but i struggled with it man because the whole time i was the underdog even when i was in england i'm not social so i didn't
talk to the judges or socialize or do anything. It was like, you know, who is this guy? Why is it like that? Just comes here and disappears. I wasn't interested in socializing or talking or trying to get favors and just doing my thing here, you know?
Well, dopamine is all about the pleasure of pursuit, not the pursuit of pleasure. And the problem with reaching a goal line is for many people, they don't know what to do at that point. In fact, one of the coaches for the Boston Celtics who used to be a former chess prodigy, Josh Waitzkin, was on here and he said, you know, it's very different when you're defending a championship.
You're now the defending champion.
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Chapter 7: How does Dorian view the role of psychedelics in personal growth?
You're on the top. You've been climbing up. Exactly. I'm going to get that bastard up there. Exactly. I'm going to knock him off. Oh, now you're there.
Now everyone's trying to knock you off. Once you hit the peak, because I think this, the reason I'm asking is I think this is important for many people who are on the climb, want to be on the climb, want the peak. Once you're at the peak, Sounds like you did a very good job of rotating your mindset to no one's going to take this away from you.
Yeah. Like a bulldog. And don't get comfortable. Don't get comfortable. So how do you do that? Like the Rocky movie. Remember the Rocky movie? When he gets comfortable, he's got the big house and everything. And you get Mr. T coming along, the badass from the ghetto, kicking his ass because he got too comfortable. So I always remember that.
Like, I'm just going to stay here, train in the gym with the same guys I train with, you know.
they don't fucking treat me like a superstar or nothing you know they know i'm the man but we're friends we've been friends for years they know me uh keep my feet on the ground if i came here i potentially could have made more income but it probably would have lasted shorter so in the long run i probably would have made less because just too many distractions uh i wanted to keep my way away from everything and it's different days then everything is the magazines
So with the magazines, I would come here, do the Mr. Olympia, do one week of intensive photograph sessions, video, everything for the magazines, so they have enough material for a year. Then I simply disappear and go home and nobody would see me. There's no social media. You don't need to keep up the constant flow of attention in order to earn income. I earned my prize money. I got my contracts.
I go home and start work again. And I loved it.
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Chapter 8: What is the significance of cannabis in Dorian's life and training?
I loved having that mission. But I can tell you something. It's very difficult to find a picture of me smiling because I was so intense in this tunnel. And at the end, there was no joy in it. Like the last year, 97, I remember getting ready for the contest. I'm like, wow, this feels like Groundhog Day. I've done this in process so many times.
And I started to think, this is starting to feel like a job. I mean, it was, but it was a passion more. It was a bit of both, right? But now it's starting to feel like a job. And I start to think about what am I going to do? after this, because it's starting to, I don't want to feel like that, you know?
Sounds like I'm just jocking you, but I'm telling you, like, that's a very wise perspective, because a lot of people don't want to let go. Yeah. They don't see themselves in anything else, and therefore, they don't know what to do. Also, when you reach a certain level in anything, it becomes easier to just make a little bit more money over here.
Yeah.
I mean, you know.
Plus, you're the king there, man.
People will just pay you to be in the room. You're the king there. Yeah. You're the king, right? Yeah. So... Maybe you don't want to give that up. So, yeah, it was tough. And I kind of observed a lot of athletes from different sports, how they really struggle. Because, yes, you can still go to the gym and lift weights, but why are you doing it now?
That absolute tunnel that you put yourself in, like you go in a battle every day for this goal, that in itself is a high. The dopamine, as you say, as a chase, I mean, a competition is once a year, right? For me, at least, it was once a year. So it's the whole year that you're aiming on that target. I can see that day the whole year. I'm thinking about that day like I'm in a tunnel.
Probably my best friend is like, it's great to hang out with you now because you're in the room. He said, I'd be with you before, but I'm well aware that your mind was not there. Like, you know, now you're like, yeah, now I'm enjoying life. Then I couldn't afford to really enjoy it. Like, I'm on a mission here. I'm in a war or whatever I had in my head. But it's a huge part of my life.
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