Show notes
What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Tiankai Feng, Data & AI Strategy Director at Thoughtworks and Author of Humanizing Data Strategy. (00:00) - Intro
(01:06) - In This Episode
(03:18) - How Data and Marketing Create a Symbiotic Relationship
(06:00) - If Data Governance Is the Jedi Council, Marketing Ops Is the Rebel Alliance
(08:26) - How to Organize Data Teams and Improve Marketing Collaboration
(14:49) - Handling Healthy Data Conflicts Without Crushing Creativity
(25:23) - How to Use Shadowing to Fix Broken Marketing Alignment
(36:44) - The Comeback of Data Quality
(43:20) - How Natural Language BI Tools Change Data Analyst Work
(46:50) - How Composable Data Management Works in Marketing
(53:30) - How to Use Authentic Communication to Build Influence in Marketing Ops
(56:40) - Happiness
Summary: Data governance feels like the Jedi Council, steady with its rules, while marketing ops moves like the Rebel Alliance, quick to adapt when perfect data never arrives. Tiankai believes progress comes from blending discipline with curiosity, bringing data in early as a partner, not a critic. He’s seen teams thrive when they pick trade-offs upfront, document how everyone fits together, and take ownership of clean, reliable inputs instead of trusting AI to fix sloppy work later. Even the best tools still need humans to design the logic behind the scenes. When teams care about context and build real relationships, data becomes the backbone that keeps marketing strong under pressure.About TiankaiTiankai Feng is Director of Data & AI Strategy at Thoughtworks, where he leads global service offerings spanning data governance, AI strategy, and modernization initiatives. He is the author of Humanizing Data Strategy – Leading Data with the Head and the Heart, and serves on the Education Advisory Board at DataQG. Previously, Tiankai spent over six years at Adidas as Senior Director of Product Data Governance, shaping data practices across global teams. He is also Head of Marketing at DAMA Germany, helping grow the country’s leading data management community. Earlier in his career, Tiankai worked as a senior consultant with TD Reply, advising major brands on digital strategy and performance. Recognized as a top data product thought leader, he is passionate about bridging the gap between technical excellence and human-centered data cultures.How Data and Marketing Create a Symbiotic RelationshipIt is interesting to consider how many data professionals started their careers by obsessing over why advertising can make people feel something. Tiankai shared that he studied campaigns as a kid and felt driven to decode the hidden mechanics behind each message. He called it the science behind the feeling. He wanted to understand why a phrase could trigger a decision and what evidence proved it actually worked.When he chose his degree, he blended marketing with database systems because he believed data could ground creative work in reality. He wanted a way to measure the effectiveness of ideas instead of relying on gut reactions. That decision led him into marketing analytics, where he learned to balance instinct with structured evidence. He described this period as the moment he first saw every click, conversion, and impression as a trail of signals pointing to what people valued most.Tiankai shared that many companies separate marketing from data in ways that weaken both. He believes that every creative idea grows stronger when it gets tested by proof. He said, “You have a lot of thoughts and gut feelings, but what if you could actually rely on proof to make better decisions?” He still asks this question whenever he evaluates a strategy or decides how to communicate the value of a data project.He also applies marketing principles inside his own teams. He treats internal projects like product launches and focuses on storytelling as much as reporting. He learned that evidence alone rarely convinces stakeholders. People respond when data feels relevant and easy to act on. He credits this mindset to his early work in brand campaigns, which taught him that information becomes meaningful when it connects to someone’s goals and emotions.“By heart, I’m still a marketer,” he said. “Even now, I’m applying what I learned in marketing to convince stakeholders to work with me.”This blend of skills helps teams create strategies that people believe in and understand. When marketing and data share the same goals, campaigns feel both credible and inspiring.Key takeaway: Blending marketing analytics with creative thinking lets you challenge assumptions and build strategies that people trust. When you share data work, present it like a product launch. Frame the message in relatable stories, make the numbers clear, and show how the information supports better decisions. That way you can help teams act with confidence and prove the impact of their ideas.If Data Governance Is the Jedi Council, Marketing Ops Is the Rebel AllianceIt is interesting to consider how marketing teams keep borrowing Star Wars metaphors to make sense of the work. Tiankai described clean, governed data as the Jedi Council, the calm authority that brings order and discipline. He shared that marketing operations always felt more like the Rebel Alliance, a team of underdogs improvising bold plans and building strategies out of whatever they could find in the hangar.In those early years, nobody had a clear guidebook. Teams cobbled together workflows, tested ideas with half-finished data, and celebrated any dashboard that did not explode during a quarterly review. Tiankai remembered feeling like every small win was a victory against the Empire of bad processes. This scrappy environment fueled creativity, but it also came with plenty of late nights and occasional panic.Today, marketing ops feels more settled. > “There’s more experience and more best practices to be shared,” he said. Teams now have detailed frameworks, polished documentation, and tools that mostly work the way they promise. That way you can spend less time guessing and more time refining campaigns that drive results. You can treat the Jedi Council as a helpful ally rather than an unreachable ideal.Tiankai still believes good operators keep a bit of rebel spirit. Even the best-governed data will sometimes contradict reality on the ground. When those moments happen, it helps to trust your instincts and build something that makes sense for your business, not just the standard playbook. The Jedi Council can provide discipline, but someone still has to step into the hangar and fly the mission.Marketing operations has grown up, but it never lost the urge to experiment. The work feels rewarding when you blend clear frameworks with your own curiosity and a willingness to bend the rules when the stakes demand it.Key takeaway: Data governance acts like a steady Jedi Council, giving your marketing operations clarity, trust, and a strong backbone. To get the most from it, combine those proven systems with the resourcefulness of a rebel team. Stay ready to challenge assumptions, tweak the plan, and follow your judgment when data alone does not tell the full story. That way you can build workflows that are disciplined enough to scale and flexible enough to handle reality without falling apart.How to Organize Data Teams and Improve Marketing CollaborationIt is interesting to consider how data ownership used to feel like an afterthought in early SaaS companies. Tiankai remembered scraping together metrics by hand, jumping between marketing dashboards and...