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Chapter 1: What was the significance of Wexford's All-Ireland win in 1996?
This is an Irish Independent Podcast.
Hey everybody, Will here. Today I was joined in studio by Wexford hurling legend Larry O'Gorman. It's been 30 years since the summer of 1996 where Wexford shocked the hurling world by winning the Liam McCarthy Cup. There were a lot of big personalities involved in that success.
Manager Liam Griffin of course, Captain Martin Storey, Liam Dunne, George O'Connor and of course Larry himself who was named hurler of the year at the end of that season. 1996 was Lowry's 10th year as a Wexford hurler and up to that point he had only won a handful of championship games but that was all to change across one magical summer.
Lowry is an ambassador for the Beco Club Champion, a volunteer reward initiative for Leinster GA clubs. Beco are looking to hero club members who go above and beyond and celebrate their contribution to local clubs and communities and for more information you can visit leinsterga.ie. And RGA Podcast coverage on the Indoor Sport Podcast is sponsored by AIB, proud sponsors of Club and County.
AIB proudly celebrate the joy, dedication and support that lies to the heart of Gaelic games in every community and player across the nation. Now, let's hear from Larry O'Gorman.
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Chapter 2: How did Liam Griffin influence the Wexford hurling team?
The referee, I think, has told the Limerick players just how little time remains.
It's going to be Mike Houlihan from Kilmalloch to Lovett. And it's all over, is it? It's all over! There was no time left. And Wexford are the champions. They've won their sixth All-Ireland final. The Liam McCarthy Cup goes back to Sladeyside for the first time since 1968. It was a performance of passion, of bravery, of skill. Martin's story has led them back into the promised land.
Larry O'Gorman, welcome. Cheers. Great to be here. Do you know what today's date is? today's days it is the 2nd of June and this day 30 years ago exactly Wexford played their first championship game of that 1996 campaign Wexford versus Kilkenny 30 years to the day
And it's incredible, actually, yes, I still remember it because when I ran out onto Croke Park, it was very strange to see only maybe about 16,000, 17,000 people between Wexford and Kilkenny. It was a very strange atmosphere when you compare to a couple of months later when we got to the final, the All-Ireland final, there was a completely different atmosphere. But yeah, it was...
Chapter 3: What challenges did Larry O'Gorman face in his early hurling career?
A tough game, a strange game indeed, but we got through it. We got over the line where previous years we struggled to beat Kilkenny, but I think it was the Liam Griffin factor that got us over the first step anyway.
When you hear 30 years, does that feel crazy to you, that that much time has passed?
Yeah, I do indeed. You know, it's hard to believe, you know, when you look at my hair and you see it grey, all right, you can tell. But yeah, it seems very strange.
But inside of my own head, you know, I still think it was yesterday, to be honest, when I think back and look back at the memories that I got out of it and the joy that people of Wexford got out of it and the success of winning the Royal Ireland, what it meant to people of Wexford.
30 years ago is a long time, there's a lot of people that have passed in the meantime as well and there's some great heroes of old that would have played hurling for Wexford, the great Ned Wheeler and all these great hurling men as well and of course we lost Seamus Byron who was the selector back then, a great guy, a great man and it's hard to believe it is 30 years ago but our luck hasn't come back yet anyway and we're still praying.
Liam Griffin just seems like people are probably very familiar with him he's been a kind of a fixture in the GA landscape going back to 96 but just kind of reading up before chatting to you about how he tapped into kind of the mental side of things that year he seemed to be an unbelievably inspirational figure
Yeah, absolutely. You know, he did a wonderful job with his backroom team as well, with Rory Kinsell, as I said, the Lea Seamans Baron and Niamh Fitzpatrick and all. She was a sports psychologist. But the year that Clare actually won the All-Ireland in 1995, Liam Griffin had called a meeting.
I think it was a week after Clearwindy All-Ireland and he sat us down at Ferry Carrick Hotel and he had a chartboard full of thoughts and ideas and so on so we were starting to say oh here we go it's only September and we're nearly back at it already so he started going through the chartboard at different months what training we were going through and what
what change is going to happen now he says in the next couple of months in terms of our diet our sports ecologist and everything else that he had thrown in there so we started to look at one another and say this guy is a bit cracked where's he going with all this so he came in in 95 but 95 hadn't like there was nothing really to show on paper 95 that 96 was around the corner like he played one championship game against Offaly and were beaten pretty comprehensively and there was controversy about Liam Dunne I know he lost his captaincy I think because he played a league game for his club before the championship
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Chapter 4: What were the key memories from the 1996 championship campaign?
So everyone around us started believing that there's a bit of progress going well here now and Wexford are making strides And of course then when the championship kicked off then and we had, as I said, Niamh Fitzpatrick, the sports psychologist, came in to meet players just to make sure that their mindset was right, that they were up.
for the challenge and certainly, you know, you've got to wear your heart on the sleeve and that's what Wexford was renowned for, to wear your heart on your sleeve. Of course, you have to have fire in your belly and you also have to have cumulus in your head when you're in a battle. So, Liam Griffin brought all that to us and sort of brought a new style of hurling as well.
He cleaned up a lot of messing and a lot of bad hurling. So, everything sort of fell into place and as you said, the first game against Kilkenny, we were victorious and after that, everything seems to be, Going nicely for us.
It's an interesting time in your own career. I think 96 was your 10th year on the Wexford panel. You were 28 years old. So you'd been around for a while, but Wexford at that point hadn't won an All-Ireland title since, what is it, 1968? Yeah, hadn't won a Lencer since 1977. So it had been a very lean period. And you're into year 10. What was the landscape like prior to Liam Griffin coming in?
What was the mood like in Wexford generally?
Well, we were a little bit unlucky, I must say, in the early 90s. We lost league finals to Kilkenny and Offaly. We lost league finals to Cork in 93 to beat us after the third game. We lost some Leinster finals as well in that period of time. So there were signs of something was good within the team or the county, you know, but it was just about getting it right.
Was there someone out there who was able to come in, put everything right? And of course, when you have the likes of George O'Connor and Martin Storey and And Billy Burnham, these guys, you know, they were great leaders.
And they were the type of guys that were... The main men at the time when I joined, and Liam Dunne and Gerard Cush and Sean Flood, when we joined in with these guys, you could see that there was a lot of experience in her. And these lads were very, very passionate.
You know, if you look back at Tom Dempsey, Martin Storey, Liam Dunne, myself, Gerard Cush, we got beaten in 85 in the minor All-Ireland Final. 86, under-21 All-Ireland Final. 86, 87 in the All-Ireland semi-final by Galway so we had a little bit of success in terms of winning underage, minor and under 21 titles but
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Chapter 5: How did the team prepare mentally for the All-Ireland final?
So he would have played hurling for Wexford. But at the time, I don't know whether it was the style of hurling or was it that mental thing in your head to say...
we're not able to get there we're not able to win it we're not good enough to win it you know you go and play Kilkenny they believed they could beat Wexford from our point of view it looked like we were hoping to beat Kilkenny so you know they always had the upper hand on us so it's certainly a neat change and
As we were progressing back into 94, 95, when Liam Griffin was announced, and I remember I met an old manager that worked for him in Furry Carrick Hotel, a lady actually down in Clonmel. And she goes, Larry, I didn't recognise her, but she says, congratulations, Liam Griffin has taken over Wexford. I said, yeah, yeah, we're looking forward to it.
We don't know what he's like, but I tell you, if he is good at managing a team as he is managing his hotels, he'll be successful. That's the first thing. And I said, well, please God, I hope you're right.
Thankfully... Did you know much about Liam Griffin?
I would, True Club and all that. He was involved, yeah, he was involved with Wexford a little bit and True Club as well. He's a very motivational guy, loves his herd, very passionate Wexford man as well. So he's a successful businessman.
So, you know, when I got to meet him first, I said, oh, this lad is a bit too much for us, you know, because we never experienced someone that talked high tech, you know.
Yeah.
high tech high spec and highly driven the man was I said this is new this is good he was confident in front of the players so now was the time for the players to be confident in front of him and of course in front of the audience when he went to play that's what his belief was to get you performing well on the B occasion and once again as you said you're mental He dropped you for a league quarter final in 1996
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Chapter 6: What role did sports psychology play in Wexford's success?
I want you back to that level again. So...
I think it was half time in Turles when Liam Griffin got a couple of shouts from the crowd bring on Larry bring on Larry so the change happened that Larry always brought on back wing back and I done quite well when I come back on but just to prove a point to Liam Griffin that you know he'll never drop me again and after the match I had said it to him never ever give me a subs jersey again
it hurt so much inside I don't know why it hurt but it did hurt everyone wants to be on the starting team yeah and I remember at the end when the All-Ireland was all over and I came into the dressing room and he gave me a big hug and he said do you remember what you said to me the day or the week in the build up to that league final semi-final again Galway quarter-final sorry and I says I can't really he says you said to me Liam you'll never ever give me a subs jersey again well now Larry he says you were dead right you proved me in a big way
So what were you doing on the pitch that caused him to drop you? What in terms of getting carried away?
Yeah, in terms of being messy, clumsy, flicking ball overhead, you know, not playing the ball that I should have been playing, overdoing it a bit too much. You know, sometimes when you get so much laid back and so much, maybe, as the lads say, you're over-coving, you think you're above everyone else. So he wanted me to stick to the plan and I probably ran off rails and he wasn't happy with it.
So he pointed a finger at me and said, I don't want any more of that. off you come. So it was a way to teach someone a lesson. And he probably set an example to others as well that, you know, if you're not going to do what he asked of you, well then, there's plenty of room on the sideline for you.
It sounds like it worked. It sounds like it did tap into a level of performance. He ended up winning Hurler of the Year in 96. So clearly, I don't know if that was the exact kind of kick up the ass maybe.
Yeah, and not only me, but there were certain other individuals. As you mentioned, Liam Dunne, the captaincy was taken off of Liam Dunne. So he was giving a message out to players. If you want to mess around, as I said, there's plenty of room on the sideline, but you're not going to do it on the field of play. Because he was trying to build a team, a team that could play at the highest level.
And if you're going to do a slip-up, if you're going to fall off, the team is going to struggle. So he wanted every position to be done right and play to a certain level, play to a certain standard and play within the rules of what he wanted really, to be honest. So very motivational. It's probably the very same as him being a manager looking after a bar staffer or someone else.
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Chapter 7: What was the atmosphere like during the 1996 All-Ireland final?
Yeah. So that was like one of the gauntlets you guys had to do.
Yeah, there was a few gauntlets thrown in, to be quite honest. We had some tough memories, but they were good, enjoyable. We went to Ballet Trent, not too far from Liam Griffin's home place, and we spent a night or two, a night, sorry, in an army tent. And we had Sean Collier, who would have been the physical trainer at the time. We had a little barbecue. We had a bit of fun.
Sean Flood played the guitar. We sang a few songs. We were going to bed at half eleven, twelve o'clock. back up for training at 8 o'clock the alarm went off and Griffin was going around dragging lads out of bed kicking lads out of bed turning beds upside down to get us out so we got up into our gear and as soon as we went out it was only 6 o'clock in the morning
Oh my God, we couldn't believe it. Here we go. So off down through the field onto the beach of Ballytrent. We've seen all the weights lined up on the beach. And that was one hell of a training session. And I remember getting in the car. I wasn't able to sit down in the car going home. I was that sore.
So it was just one of those things that if you're going to do it together to win, well, this is the time to do it. So it was a great training session. And a great night, a great weekend, I would say, overall. But we went to Ross Lair to play a bit of hurling as well. I remember my sister was actually getting married in Ross Lair. And I pulled out of the wedding as I got to a hotel.
My sister's reception was in Hotel Ross Lair. And I said, look, when I make over, we're training in ballet training. So I had to leave the wedding to go and join the crew, even though Liam Griffin did invite me to go back over later on that evening. But no, I wanted to stay with the group and show that we're in it together. So it all worked out fine in the end.
You know, dedication is one thing, but when every player or everyone in the panel, including the management, when we all got it together, we got it together right.
Did your sister mind you missing the wedding?
Oh no, she was a fanatic about Wexford early. She was delighted. And of course, it's strange that you say this. After the All-Ireland final, I got the ball in my hand and I just leaped towards the hill and jumped up on the hill. And, you know, it's just something that will stick in my memory as well by just jumping up because I knew my family were up there.
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Chapter 8: What lessons can be learned from Wexford's journey in 1996?
The crowd was incredible. And eventually when it got almost to the sideline of the Hogan stand, I heard two people crying and turning around. And who was it? My two sisters crying. And I gave my sister the ball to hold onto it for me. And I just moved on. And I gave him a hug and naturally he gave him a hug.
But it was amazing though, after walking through a crowd of maybe 5,000, 6,000 people and you just happened to meet your sister, the same girl that just a couple of weeks before that, that you walked out on her wedding day to go training with the boys.
It worked out well in the end.
It worked out well in the end. But you were just saying, sorry, about Clare winning in 95. I know now that Liam Griffin and I had a good chat with Gerlach Nairn. I more or less said to him, what did it take for you to win the All-Ireland?
They had a good meeting among themselves because, as I said, when we went back to Hotel Rosslier, sorry, Furry Carrick Hotel, the following week for this new sit-down meeting and the year going forward, when I looked at the chartboard, we all looked at each other naturally. I was about to training.
The Kilkenny match, the Dublin match, he kept on flicking these pages over and over where we're going to go. And I said, dude, how is he able to think so far in advance? It was this thing that he was trying to get into our head that we're well able, we're well
able to do this if we believe in ourselves and of course Niamh Fitzpatrick was the sports psychologist so she played a massive part in terms of getting us focused getting us right for every game before we went out you know not to look on the downside of losing but on the upside of winning and winning creates good habits So this day 30 years ago as I said so what time is it?
20 past 11 at the moment so this time 30 years ago it would have been 20 past 11 ahead of Wexford Kilkenny what obviously you'd done all this preparation, you'd done a physical prep, you'd done mental prep. There was a sense that the team was better prepared than in 95.
But like in your own head, were you thinking this is the first step towards an All-Ireland or were you still thinking, I don't know if we're going to beat Kilkenny, I don't know if we can beat Kilkenny. Where were you at?
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