Children's educator and YouTube star Ms Rachel has used her social media to advocate for the safety of children all over the world - but when she used her platform to call attention to the plight of children in Palestine, she was accused of being paid by Hamas. This week, Brittany is joined by Defector managing editor Samer Kalaf and The Guardian's data editor Mona Chalabi to unpack why it's suddenly so controversial to advocate for kids.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What sparked the controversy around Ms. Rachel?
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Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. Today, we are talking children's TV characters. Who is the GOAT?
I actually was a PBS kid when I was growing up. Okay. And I watched a lot of Arthur.
Arthur.
His whole campaign of reading more, it really affected me. I was in the library all the time because of him.
And look at you now.
Look at that.
It paid off. I have a character who I did not grow up with at all. It's Peppa Pig. I love Peppa Pig's attitude. Listen, listen. I'll explain why. I have a personal connection. Because I have been taking Spanish tutoring for the past year and a half.
One of the things that was suggested to me when I was like starting off was that I should watch children's programming to kind of like, you know, get into, you know. And so I started watching Peppa Cerdo on YouTube. Yeah.
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Chapter 2: Why is advocating for Palestinian children controversial?
And this week, she posted again to her Instagram, making another plea for empathy.
If you're not going to stand up for them, you might as well come out and say you don't see them like you see our kids.
But let's go back a bit. Last month, a privately funded pro-Israel advocacy organization called Stop Antisemitism asked the Department of Justice to investigate whether Ms. Rachel was being paid by Hamas to share her messages on social media. For the record, Ms. Rachel has denied receiving any funding from Hamas.
But these accusations have reignited conversations surrounding what constitutes antisemitism. And in light of the fatal shooting of two Israeli embassy workers in D.C. on Wednesday night, people are feeling scared. But the blowback against Ms. Rachel makes me wonder why some people feel like stopping anti-Semitism and wanting health and safety for Palestinian people are mutually exclusive.
Since October 2023, at least 15,000 children have been killed in Gaza. Around 17,000 have been orphaned. The World Health Organization says the entire 2.1 million population of Gaza is facing prolonged food shortages, with nearly half a million people facing acute malnutrition, starvation, illness, and death. And of course, children are the most vulnerable to these atrocities.
Samer, Mona, why is advocating for the safety of all children causing all of this commotion?
I think it's specifically because she started to advocate for Palestinian children. Because if you look at her recent posts, she has advocated for children all across the globe. She's advocated for the famine in Sudan. She's pointed her audience to foundations there. But I think specifically because... She recognizes the scale of what's happening in Gaza.
Groups like Stop Anti-Semitism are starting to go after her. They think it's like a matter of proportion, I guess.
Disproportionate in the sense that some critics feel like she's posting too much about Palestinian kids.
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Chapter 3: What are the impacts of the Gaza conflict on children?
Mona, I'd like to hear from you on this. Why do you think people are up in arms about Ms. Rachel right now?
I think they're upset because when such a mainstream beloved figure... expresses support for Palestine, it shows to what extent the default position has shifted. So for the longest time, the default position was basically one of sympathy towards Israel and suspicion towards Palestinians. And that was kind of what was defined as neutral and objective.
And for somebody like Miss Rachel to come out and state that she is horrified by what is happening to Palestinian children... is such an indication of how much public opinion has shifted. And people are fighting very, very hard for where that center lies. So these right-wing groups are trying to keep everyone dragged to this side where the center is actually a pro-Israel position.
I mean, one of the critiques of Ms. Rachel right now is that she hasn't been staying in her lane as a children's TV star every time she speaks up specifically about the health and welfare of children in Gaza. What do you make of this critique?
I would actually argue that Miss Rachel is staying in her lane by speaking up on this. She is a children's educator. Therefore, she has a concern for children, for the fact that children are being systematically starved, for the fact that education in Gaza has been absolutely destroyed. Schools have been bombed. Teachers have been killed.
No child in Gaza has been able to have access to a decent level of education since October. And, I mean, this is particularly shocking given that Palestine used to have a literacy rate that was actually higher than America's. And that's all gone now. So I would argue that as somebody who is a children's educator, she has a real concern to speak up on behalf of children and education.
And, by the way, I would say that... For most of us who aren't Palestinian, very often our lens to understanding this is through our careers. So for me, as a journalist, I am deeply, deeply concerned and troubled by the targeted killing of journalists in Palestine.
I know medical workers who are deeply troubled by the targeted killings of aid workers, of medics, and again, the bombings of hospitals. She's staying in her lane. It's just, it's a ridiculous accusation. I don't know.
Mona has a point there because also in some of these videos, Miss Rachel is carrying her own baby as she talks about what's happening to children in Gaza.
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Chapter 4: How have public opinions shifted regarding Gaza?
Yeah, not only is she a children's entertainer, but she's also a parent, and she just sees that as such a level of basic humanity that it's hard for her to look away from that.
You know, she's used her platform to speak out against the bombing and starvation, systematic oppression of children in Gaza right now. Why do you think she is receiving backlash, though, if the messaging isn't on the show or in the songs themselves? Like, this is something she's doing in places that typically children are not going to see it. Like, she did an interview with Zateo Essimo with CNN.
You know, this is happening on her Instagram. The children that she's singing to are very small, like they're not going to see these things or hear these messages. I wonder why is the backlash so strong if children aren't really being exposed to this?
I think you're seeing this because it's a distinctly Palestinian issue. I think it's going to be different than when you're talking about saving the children anywhere else, kind of similar to student protests across the country.
I think people are fine when you advocate for peace, but then when you advocate for the end to the suffering for Palestinian people in Gaza, it becomes a whole different kind of can of worms for them.
Coming up.
The movement is now more emboldened to go after figures who were considered non-controversial like Ms. Rachel. I can't see where it goes from here.
Stay with us. Speaking of headline-worthy, all of this hullabaloo has attracted the attention of major news organizations. Obviously, we're talking NPR right now, but also The New York Times, who spoke with Ms. Rachel directly, or at least corresponded with Ms. Rachel directly through email. The New York Times said that in an emailed response to the publication's request for questions, Ms.
Rachel denied having received money from Hamas. What do you make of that, Samar?
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Chapter 5: What is Ms. Rachel's stance on children's advocacy?
But the author of that piece in the Times, Mark Tracy, floated this idea accusation for Miss Rachel to deny. But the thing is, if he had done a little more work into seeing how it came about, it wouldn't have been worth even approaching her about it.
Like, it sounds like the claim was completely unfounded. I haven't seen any evidence that would indicate that it would be something that a journalist would need to follow up on.
To me, it's not surprising, actually, that even Miss Rachel was accused of being funded by Hamas because we actually see this as a consistent playbook among those who are trying to discredit voices who are speaking up for Palestine and for Palestinians.
So whether it's student movement, student protesters or beloved children's entertainers, you're either going to be accused of supporting Hamas or being directly funded by them. And luckily with someone like Miss Rachel, that seems utterly ludicrous because
Unfortunately, there are young people in campuses across the country who are having that accusation leveled against them who don't have the financial resources or even the immigration security to be able to fight back. So I really want to caution that that's not isolated, that kind of tactic. It's just bad journalism to just repeat any old claim.
Hmm. Hmm. I mean, at the end of the day, it blows my mind that a very popular... children's entertainer from YouTube and Netflix, had to deal with unfounded accusations of having ties to Hamas. But that is actually in line with the Heritage Foundation's Project Esther, brought to you by the makers of Project 2025.
Project Esther is basically a plan to characterize dissent against Israel's actions as support for Hamas, really conflating two things that are literally different. What do you make of this?
Yeah, I mean, I feel like this has been kind of the standard for a while, but now these kinds of organizations are kind of emboldened by the fact that nobody is really pushing back against these kind of campaigns. And until you see people pushing back on it, they're going to continue to see it as a successful tactic.
I was just going to add that the accusation that people who have spoken up on behalf of Palestine are associated with Hamas is actually an escalation of a very, very, very long standing strategy, which is to discredit people by accusations that they are anti-Semitic.
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Chapter 6: How do accusations against Ms. Rachel reflect broader societal issues?
Right, right. Like just because you might not agree with Zionism doesn't mean you're necessarily anti-Semitic. And you're right. A lot of Jewish community members are also speaking up on behalf of the health and welfare of Palestinian people. I mean, the situation for children in Gaza is so dire right now.
Again, it's just an effort to politicize what are fundamentally questions of human rights and human dignity.
Just this week, United Nations humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher described the situation on the ground as, quote, catastrophic. Also, he said that the Israeli blockade was putting 14,000 babies specifically, not just 14,000 children, 14,000 babies at risk of dying in the next 48 hours. And this was on Tuesday that he said that.
I guess I always consider the health and welfare of children to be one of those causes that everyone could get behind. Why is talking about the health and welfare of children suddenly so controversial?
I mean, I think it goes back to it being about Palestinians, honestly. I think that... We've seen that different things that we used to think of in the past as non-controversial or objective across the world suddenly face more pushback and backlash when it has to do with Palestinians.
Like speaking out for children, it's fine to speak out for children in other places, but when you start speaking out for children in Gaza, you're going to face more pushback, basically.
You know, Miss Rachel, a beloved American-born children's entertainer, like this bubbly woman, she's got her little headband on, she's got her overalls, she's wearing pink. If she can't talk about kids wanting to be safe, what are the freedom of speech implications for the rest of us?
We've been hearing so much about... how the future of free speech in the US looks very, very terrifying, how perhaps Miss Rachel being silenced is a harbinger of terrible things to come. My impression is that we're already here.
I think the way that the student movement has been mischaracterised, the repercussions for those students who have spoken up, the arbitrary detention, the monitoring of people's social media accounts, we're there. It's bleak and all the more reason then to fight for people like Miss Rachel so that our rights also aren't taken away.
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Chapter 7: What can be done to support children in conflict zones?
I was just going to say, like, if the next pope also speaks up on behalf of Palestine, are people going to claim that he's funded by Hamas? Let's see. Let's see.
Well, I mean, literally the pope, I think, actually just called again for the Israeli blockade to end. I renew my heartfelt appeal to allow the entry of dignified humanitarian aid and to put an end to the hostilities whose heartbreaking price is paid by the children, elderly and the sick. So, yeah, I mean, this is something that the Pope is calling for as well.
And he also specifically mentioned children. Mona, Samer, I'm really grateful that you both came on to talk to me today. I really learned so much in this conversation. I really appreciated your time. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. That was defectors Samer Kalaf and the guardians Mona Chalabi. And I'm going to put on my influencer hat for a second and ask you to please subscribe to this show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're listening. Click follow so you know the latest in culture while it's still hot. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose.
This episode was edited by Nina Potok. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sanguini. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.
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