Jocko Underground: The Reality When Your Boss Sucks and You Don't Respect Him At All.
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 230, sitting here with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. We have got some questions from the front lines, from you out there where the rubber meets the road in the trenches, and we have some answers, we have some suggestions, and at a minimum, we've got some courses of action that you can follow to navigate through this maze. That's
true. All right, let's get into it. First question, Jocko. I am an experienced paramedic on a strong seasoned team that takes pride in our work. One newer paramedic has developed a reputation for being lazy, dishonest, hostile to feedback, and openly admitting he doesn't meet patient care standards. Despite lacking the respect of nearly everyone on our shift, including several battalion chiefs, he was recently promoted to sergeant and is training to fill in as battalion chief. Largely due to his relationship with management. How do you respect someone's leadership position when you don't respect or trust the person holding it?
Well, thanks for your service. I know that it's tough work out there being a paramedic. You know, there's a scene in Band of Brothers. where Major Dick Winters, this is when he's become a Major, it's later in the show, he's not a Lieutenant anymore, subordinate to Captain Sobell, and they see each other, and Captain Sobell doesn't want to salute him, doesn't want to give him that respect. And Dick Winters calls him out and says, we salute the rank, not the man. And it's very interesting because he's saying in the clear, in broad daylight. Hey, I know you don't respect me. That's okay. We salute the rank, not the man. That's what he's saying. He's like, okay, you don't have to respect me. That's right. Which is weird.
I'm not saying I love that idea, right? But that's what he's saying. And there is a component of that. Well, actually I do. It's a weird situation. But his message is correct. Now, what would I have done? I'd have been like, hey, whatever. You know
what I
mean? Like, you got to let that guy. If you were the.
If I was
major winners and I saw him, you know, and saw him trying not to make eye contact and avoid me, I'm not going to call him out. I just don't, you know, don't really care. And that guy's already. I mean, he he literally killed himself in real life. You know, so the guy already has issues. You know, I don't feel like I need to. like make him salute me. But I understand, you know, but, and there is a, there's a component with Dick Winters of like, Hey, this is the military and we've got people. If you're not going to follow the protocols here, That's problematic. There would sometimes be an interesting dynamic in the military that I would see, which was, let's say you were a chief, right? And as a chief, you kind of really flexed that authority that you had from being a
chief.
Like, hey, I'm a chief. You better, hey, I'm the chief. I'm a chief. You know, I'm a chief petty officer. I'm an E7, like that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. Well, if you're going to play that game, guess what game you also have to play? Oh, this person's an officer. Well, I'm a lieutenant. You know what I mean? So if you start playing the rank game, you're locked in. Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you want to play the rank game, I interacted with a guy that was very much like that. Very much like that. very very uh bought into his own rank recently this was a while ago
this is
no this is in the teams oh
yeah a guy that was
very bought into his rank and flexing his rank but other people's ranks that were above him were kind of like they didn't matter and i'd kind of always be like you know you know and this is funny too because i was this is when i was an ensign which is the lowest ranking officer which generally don't get a ton of respect because In the regular situations, these are guys that have been in the Navy for three days or up to two years.
What is the core dilemma presented by the paramedic about respecting a leader they distrust?
But they're very new.
They're very
junior. For me, I had been in for eight years at this point. So, you know, I wasn't quite like a boot. Yeah, a little bit different.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–4:11
2
What is the core dilemma presented by the paramedic about respecting a leader they distrust?
4:11–6:09
3
How does Jocko explain the principle of saluting the rank, not the person?
6:09–11:55
4
Why does playing the “rank game” create hidden risks for leaders and teams?
11:55–13:50
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from Jocko Podcast
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