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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Generate is supporting my vision to improve the financial literacy of 100,000 Kiwis by sponsoring Keep the Change. Cheers Generate! Head to generatekiwisaver.co.nz forward slash change to find out more. The world is awash with AI chat, isn't it?
It's so difficult to figure out exactly where we are with it all, eh? It is a wild time. There is all sorts of things changing in the world because of it. Everything from like energy infrastructure to the data centres, like the cost of building them and the employment that comes along with that. Over 90% of Kiwi workers now use AI. Lots of jobs have become like almost pointless.
Just anything that seems to be associated to AI just seems to get... so much attention whether it's the content or that and for me that just feels a little bit bubbly. Well, by the time that you watch this pod, Mikey and I will no longer be in our businesses or recording podcasts because AI will have taken over everything.
And you're going to struggle to even understand whether we're sitting in front of you on the screen or if it's just AI versions of us. The downside, Mikey, is that it's a public holiday and both of us are sitting here working. Or are we AI? Yeah, good question. Yeah. How does anyone know now? I think they say put your hand in front of your face or something. AI refuses to do that. Oh, really?
Yeah. There we go. Watched some clip about it. Could have been an AI clip. It's hard to know, mate. The world is awash with AI chat, isn't it?
Yeah. It's so difficult to figure out exactly where we are with it all, eh? There's... I have this split in my brain of the real world and then the investment world. And I think, man, this looks like what got talked about in the dot-com bubble.
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Chapter 2: How is AI currently impacting Kiwi workers?
So bubbly and frothy. Did you see the S&P 500 reversal when Trump claimed that the war was over? How fast it went up back to all-time highs? Yeah. That was wild how fast that basically just recursively went bang. Yeah. The money that pulled back in, I think it's a lot of leverage and shit. And then there's like...
Maybe I shouldn't be a contrarian against the investment in AI and how fast markets are moving and stuff like that because I use it in my daily life and it's genuinely making a difference now. It's pretty mind-blowing what we're getting up to at Guardian with it and the time saving and...
the hardest part about it for me is coming up with the idea of how to use it because I'm not like a naturally creative person. Um, I, I just have to remind myself when I hit a friction point, I'm like, can I, I do this? And then just, that's basically how we unpack it. Nice. Um, But yeah, it is a wild time. There is all sorts of things changing in the world because of it.
Everything from energy infrastructure to the data centers, like the cost of building them and the employment that comes along with that, right through to people using it to book into calendars and manage their email and all sorts of stuff. I feel like the email thing is kind of dead, eh?
Yeah.
I feel like that was a year ago. Everyone got pissed off because we could all tell everyone was using it. Yeah. And it's probably better now. Like I know we use Gmail and I know it still throws up like the recommended thing to like send. And I'm like, Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's good. I'll use that. And other times I'm like, nah, that's fucking not how I talk.
But it's obviously learning off the background of what I'm typing in. I always say like, hey, mate, that's the start. So it's figured that out finally because it used to be like,
kia ora and i'm like i don't say that in my emails and uh yeah it's figured that out which is funny but yeah wild times well i think we've had a few conversations recently where we're just saying it almost feels bubbly and i think you mentioned that before but i think a recent example people would have seen there was so much media coverage of uh all birds the the new zealand shoe company and i don't know like enough about what's going on i've never owned a pair of those shoes
But it did seem they were all the rage at one stage, and people were investing into the company, and then the market valuation's gone down massively, and that came out as a big story. Then all of a sudden, there was some kind of pivot into AI, and bang, the stock is up 500% overnight, and then we're joking about, should I change next advisory to just drop the D, and it's like next AI advisory.
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Chapter 3: What is causing the productivity gap in New Zealand?
And I think it's a little bit of the same pattern that I'm seeing with AI, where people are jumping in and going, wow, this is powerful, which I think is amazing, but probably getting ahead of our skis a little bit of... Does the market actually want this? Do I actually want to be doing this? Is it actually as helpful as I think it is?
And am I really the person to have been the first person to think about this and everybody else is completely missing it?
Yeah, I think there's two parts there. The first part is... Like I 100% agree with you, but every now and then Xero gets built. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, this tool is gangster. It is going to change the industry and make everyone's life easier and more efficient. And, you know, so like that can happen. I do tend to lean toward that with AI. I do think it's pretty game changing.
I don't know how far it goes. Like it feels like it can eat a lot of SaaS software type companies.
Yeah.
but on the other side of that, what you're saying, which is really important. Um, and you know, one of our guys who does really well as a mortgage advisor, uh,
well there's a couple of them actually but i was saying to them you know they make good money like mid 300s a year or whatever and they're saying that they spend all sunday doing all this work and like ai and building this tool and it's like i don't know questionnaire dashboard all this stuff and then something didn't work and they realized that they wasted the whole of sunday and you know all of that and that's fine that's part of the cost of learning sometimes um but
Also, you make 350, which is cool. It's great that you earn that. But, you know, there's other mortgage advisors out there that make a million and they're still doing it with pen and paper. So like, or like only just getting into like CRM software and stuff. So. Who's right? What is the goal that you're trying to achieve here?
Are you being unproductive to try and create a lazier version of yourself? And all of this energy and stuff that goes into doing the stuff that might not work with AI that you're trying to develop could have been spent getting 10 more clients or...
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Chapter 4: Why hasn't GDP grown despite the AI boom?
Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know how to explain what I think a work week will look like. I think the only.
Chapter 5: What jobs are at risk due to AI advancements?
thing i know for certain about humans is without hard there's no easy a and you can't you can't go easy mode forever you need like challenges and stuff and i reckon we make them up if we don't have them and yeah i just don't think you can like if you can get ai to do everything for you one day we will just find something else i'm so sure of a day you can't slow these people down
I do think that the whole nine to five structure thing will look like a blip in history. You know, that seems to be something off the back of like industrial revolution, factory working type stuff. And previously in history, you know, we were all like slaves at one point and doing all that kind of thing. But when there was like a job to do, like let's go build the pyramids, boys.
You work until you can't work. And then you would go and, you know, do whatever else. And it's like, okay, we need to build a city. Like there wasn't hours for that. It's like we need to build, you know, a boat. There wasn't hours for it. Like hundreds of years ago, it was just like we've got a job to do. We'll do it when we're finished.
we're done sail on the boat yeah we're done like we'll finish we'll live in the house or and we just like took this transformation after you know the factory worker and stuff and turned it into a society and built off debt by the way but And now it's like a thing that we can't really get out of. But there might actually be an escape hatch from that. Well, we can already see it, right?
Like you see it in content, you see it in all sorts of things. But I still feel like we will just find bigger projects to fill up our day and do. Because humans have to move forward, otherwise we die.
Well, interestingly on that too, I'm working with quite a few business owners at the moment that are actually doing really well.
and they've got my income levels that they want that that's not important for them to grow that they like what they've built they're very content but society messaging is kind of still telling them well but if you're stagnant you die um you're supposed to grow like get bigger yeah and so they're really conflicted because they're going but but I sort of built more than what I ever wanted.
Yeah.
And so I don't know how to now enjoy it. And then even when they step away, they're like, Oh, what am I, what am I going to do? You know? And so then they're having to find things. And I think this is probably no different as an analogy for people who get towards 65 and they have got freehold property investments and they can, but, but they financially, they can retire, but like,
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Chapter 6: Is Universal Basic Income a viable solution for job loss?
It's real now, eh? Yeah. People have done it. And the same sort of thing in the AI space where... just because it can be done doesn't mean it's going to be you that does it. Just like Luke thinking, okay, well, maybe I could become a warrior or whatever. It's like you can't misguide your talents, your work ethic, and those things, but we've got to try things.
And that's what I do like about people that are having a crack at AI and sending me these things. I'm like, okay, good on you. You're trying and you're trying to figure out who you want to be and how you can apply your life. But there is just ā
a lot more ability now to build a life or design your life and get really clear on what that is and then set some boundaries around that and then stick um to that doing that i think is the the hard part just like the business owners who do do the thing or the people who buy the rental properties and it's like okay now i need to like lean into what i actually set out to build
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Economic impacts. What do you reckon is going to happen here?
Oh, far out. I mean, there's two schools of thoughts, right, to go high level from what I've seen. It's basically GDP is going to grow massively and it's going to be this technology. Have all the debt. Yeah, it changes everything and will outgrow the debt and wouldn't people then just borrow more? The system also incentivizes putting more debt into it.
Or, you know, people are going to lose their jobs, they're going to lose their purpose or have to have forms of benefits to get by. I can't see it being that, like, I would like to think that it creates all this, like, amazing growth and that. I do think it's, in the middle of that, I do think that it is
really fundamentally world changing and technology changing and something that I truly don't understand and so I'm going to have to go along for the ride a little bit but I just like your data there and plus the data from CPA Australia like for New Zealand for instance we're not even investing into it and we're not even it's not being led by the seams we're probably playing to a degree at the consumer end of it so I can't
see us having enough interest in it for those where it really matters to dive in and absolutely send it to then be rewarded from that. And I think if you tell people that they may lose their jobs and this is against them, do those people choose then to just wait for that to happen? Yeah.
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Chapter 7: How can businesses leverage AI for efficiency?
Like when... Something is scarce and desirable and more than one person wants it. Like that's what creates value. And when you put unlimited units in the system and more than one person wants something else, the unit number goes up massively, you know, and. even the desire just to go and watch the Spitfire fly is wild, right?
Like there's a thousand people there or whatever standing that have paid hundreds of dollars for tickets to go and watch it fly by.
And that's a good point because then on the other side of that, if you think about it, okay, if all of us can vibe code a bloody website in 30 minutes, if that, you know, and spin it up and have it live, does that then make it valuable? Makes it valueless. Yes. So why are we focusing on the things that everyone can do? That's what I'm saying. We've got to be careful because also then...
That's the crazy deflationary part that I'm sort of ā I was trying to use a TV, but it was a terrible example.
Well, yeah, in there too. So say Luke's got some knowledge of it. He's not a vibe coder. He doesn't want to build his website. If someone comes along and then says, oh, I can build this for you and it's going to cost you $10,000, I'm looking at it going, brother, I think you might have made this on ā
AI like I don't know like do we want to be paying 10 grand for this anymore and interestingly yeah I got approached by some stuff recently where it looked amazing and then I shared it with someone they're like oh there's like quite a few spelling mistakes in the wording of the authority here makes it read a bit different to they actually work with them to they've been in touch with them and I looked at it and I'm like I'm skeptical of this whole thing now
Because this website looks like it has been created via AI quite simply to put together an amazing offer to almost pull the wool over my eyes a little bit. So I'm like, I'm going to pull back from the entire thing. And I don't actually know how valuable any of this is. And I think humans are quite good at that once they start to kind of smell a bit of a rat.
Even interestingly, I got a screenshot from a business owner recently explaining how valuable the What's Next podcast content has been over on the Next advisory side, just thanking us. Got heaps of work ahead of them, not even a client. So I took it, I screenshotted it, and someone commented, they're like, oh, cool, bro, making up AI images to chuck up on your Instagram now.
And I'm like, oh, shit. Skepticism is there. Yeah, well, yeah. They think it's not real. I'm like, oh, okay. That's interesting.
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Chapter 8: What are the potential economic impacts of widespread AI adoption?
But I think we are... a country of trying not to leave people behind in a crisis. And that, I think, is going to require money should this come. I think the interesting dynamic that a lot of us have forgot to is, remember Grant Robertson? I think he had a suggestion that we have... some form of system where we pay into for people being made redundant. That's right.
There was some sort of insurance employment scheme.
He might pop up in five years and be like, told you so. I told you guys didn't want to do it. And he might have a bit of a last laugh over a lot of people. But yeah, I think we might be going past the hour here as well. We could talk about this for ages, but I think there's so much opportunity here
But at the same time, there's a big risk that people just get caught in the tittering, the tinkering, the playing.
I reckon that's riskier than the idea of UBI and the debt and the system and all of that.
Wasting the opportunity.
Yeah. By just playing. The debt and stuff's happening anyway. We didn't need AI to accelerate it. You can go and look what a dollar bought you 50 years ago versus now and see what's already happened to it. That's literally a fact. It's dust.
One of the things I've been saying recently is like a stress test for people to play with is basically role model your budget, your cash flow in your life with a 50% reduction of household income because it kind of models the reality of someone losing their job in the household and what happens. And I'm not saying that that's going to happen for people, but if you can ā
get yourself ahead of that with some of that healthy paranoia of like, okay, what will we be forced to do? I think sometimes it's better to get to the crisis and have tried to figure out what you may need to do. For sure. Rather than, holy shit, how am I in this situation? How could this happen? UBI is not going to be enough. The benefit that I will receive is not going to be enough.
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