Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0818 715 815. This is Live Line on RTE Radio 1.
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Good afternoon. You are very welcome to LiveLine. 51551 is the number. If you want to get in touch by text, you can email LiveLine at rte.ie or reach me on the WhatsApp 087 484 888 and Saoirse is on the line. Saoirse, are you enjoying the good weather?
Yeah, you know, it's been lovely, yeah, but it's also a little bit worrying for me.
Why are you worried by it?
I mean, you know, we know that the climate is changing and that it's caused by human activity and seeing record high temperatures, you know, at inappropriate times of the year, but also just in general, seeing record high temperatures is quite worrying for what it's going to mean for us for the future.
Do you have a view on the tone of how the weather is covered?
Totally. Yeah. I mean, one of the one of the concerns that we have as folks like myself working on climate is, you know, that this kind of weather is always reported in the media as using kind of what we call fun in the sun imagery. So, you know, images of people on beaches and eating ice creams. And of course, we love those things.
But, you know, it kind of doesn't really portray the reality of what this kind of extreme heat means for us, for our future. Also, you know, the reality of extreme heat that is currently being experienced across the world in the global south caused by countries like ours missing. their emissions targets. So it's disingenuous to not show both sides.
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Chapter 2: What are the concerns about climate change during the warm weather?
But yeah, I don't have figures on that or anything, but I would guess probably that, yeah, we do, we are more likely to do that.
Yeah. But can you understand then that, you know, that mindset where it is, you know, on Róðil Sánaf a sín tach, you know, where it is that bit rarer that there's a tendency to lean in then to the more frivolous side of it all?
Absolutely. And look, there's no one saying to anyone that they shouldn't be going to the beach or having a 99 or whatever. You know, this is not about criticizing the way that people actually, you know, behave within the heat wave. I mean, I think people should also, you know, do whatever they can to be comfortable in it, because obviously the extreme heat can be very uncomfortable.
I think the issue is with the lack of acknowledgement that that extreme heat is unusual, does say something, you know, significant about the way that the climate is changing, also can be dangerous for many people. Also, you know, but not everybody is able to be eating in 99 or going to the beach that some people are working in extremely hot conditions and so on. So it's like...
there needs to be, I guess, an acknowledgement of both, but this is about media reporting not covering the reality of extreme heat rather than people, you know, in their actual day-to-day lives, you know, getting an ice cream, which I definitely don't object to.
So, I mean, is this just a feature of the good weather, as it were, or is there a broader failure on the media's part to acknowledge climate catastrophe?
I mean... I think that the climate catastrophe and the reality of the situation that we're in is a very difficult thing for everybody to reckon with. And this is not to say that it's not being reported in the media, because it is.
Given the scale of the crisis and given how quickly we are heading towards really immense danger and something that is going to be extremely significant within all of our lifetimes, it is odd that it is not making headlines every single day. I mean, certainly the media coverage is not proportionate to the scale of the crisis.
I don't want to get into the, you know, we're so well past the point of, you know, whether this is real or not. But what do you say to the pushback that's more along the lines of, you know, it's 1997, I think, is the records that were broken yesterday for May. You know what I mean? People who suggest, well, you know, is...
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Chapter 3: How does media coverage influence public perception of climate change?
Yes, I acknowledge the slight changes, absolutely. But nothing me or you or that caller on the other line is going to change what's going to happen. I mean, oil and gas and all these things that we say that are causing all this, they're built into everyday living. They're in your clothes, they're in your pens, they're in your computers. We don't have alternatives.
By-products are everywhere from oil and gas. Do you know, and people get stuck... Oh, we need to get our footprint down. We're going to get our footprint down. You know, as I said to your researcher there, Ciara, the war on climate change ain't going to be won in this country. I mean, you know, per capita, they'll throw it out there per person.
We are putting out X amount or whatever, and we're one of the leaders in the world. But on collective as a country, we're so far down the pecking order, we'd be forgotten about if you actually looked into it. You know, and I think it's an easier way to go per capita per person than it is to go collective as a country. And, you know, look, listen, enjoy the sunshine.
It'll be gone before the weekend, you know. But let's be honest about it. It was a bloody cold May coming into the last week. You know, everybody was wearing jackets. We were all saying how cold it was and blah, blah, blah. Again, maybe it's climate change. I don't know. I'm living in Ireland all my life.
If we're going to get to the point where we're trying to dictate and determine what the right weather is for this country, well, we're losing it. We're losing a battle here already. Like, I've never known this country to have stable weather. I'm 40-odd years living in this country, and it's never had stable weather. You know, so that's my view. Look, not everybody do, you know.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that we ever had stable weather and that climate change is now causing unstable weather. I mean, you talk to people who are out in it day in, day out. You talk to any farmer in the country and they'll say, you know, evidence of climate change is all around them.
You know, the people who are paying really, really close attention to weather patterns and weather events.
OK, yeah, yeah. But then again, we're not putting the protocols in place for bad weather events. You know, I just heard you briefly talking about fires in Europe. There's fires in Europe every year. Are they doing what they're supposed to be doing over there now to prevent fires? Are they clearing away dead brush and all that? Look, I'm just asking these questions.
You know, there's always preventative measures. Are we implementing these preventative measures? I'm a firm believer, Ciara, you know, It's going to be something we all have to live with. I don't think we're going to stop it. Probably won't see the worst of it in our lifetime.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of extreme weather on global populations?
Everything we live in, packaging, everything, everything, byproducts of oil and gas. It's so, I mean, look at all the wars in the world today. It's all over oil and gas. We all know that. We're not saying it out loud. You know, that's how valuable of a commodity it is. Instead of creating all this destabilisation throughout the whole world?
Some conflict has been actually as a result of climate change. You look at what precipitated the massive refugee crisis in Europe a few years ago, and it was the civil war in Syria, which was precipitated by changing climate there and people flooding into the big urban conurbations, and it led to this huge... political unrest. So there's a direct correlation between both.
And when you're saying kind of adapt to it, I mean, it's one thing to adapt to 27 degree temperatures in May in Ireland. The consequence for other parts of the world would become that, you know, parts of the coast would become flooded, large parts of kind of The tropics may become uninhabitable.
There'll be huge migrations of people, migrations of people towards more temperate climates like ours as a result of that, you know, like large scale economic collapse. Is that the type of stuff you're saying we just have to adapt to it?
Well, I mean, we could go on about like Syria and countries like that. I mean, but let's be honest about it. I mean, they're notoriously hot countries. I mean, in primary school jogged me back when I was a kid. I mean, the Sahara Desert, we were learning the Morocco and Africa, North Africa.
I suppose what I say, that was a very long-winded way of saying, do you accept that it's one thing for us to adapt to a slightly cooler April and a slightly warmer May, but... The same people who would tell us that might be the consequence for Ireland in the short to medium term would tell you that the consequence is going to be devastating for other parts of the world.
And that has huge knock on consequences in terms of economies and the movement of people and migration. And we'd have to adapt to all of that as well. Or do you not buy that?
No, I don't buy climate and all that. I mean, if there wasn't a war, I mean, they'd have climate. But the war is why they're all displaced here. Let's call it a state of space. Libya?
No, but if I get... That's what I'm saying is... We could go through all of them. No, I guess I'm trying to... What I'm trying to explore is to what extent you accept what... the scientific consensus is in terms of the consequences of climate change.
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Chapter 5: How do different countries respond to climate change challenges?
I mean, is that not one of the cleanest sources of energy? Absolutely is. Nobody talks about it. Look, I'm not one of these people here who says climate change isn't happening. I'm certainly not that type of guy. What I'm saying is to you, oil and gas is here, CO2 is here, and it's here for a while.
So we need to maybe start looking at mitigating, doing things differently that we're going to have to use oil and gas for, but maybe implement filtration. Whatever it is you have to do. I don't know. But it's not going anywhere quick.
Yeah. Sorry, Jess, I just want to go back to Saoirse because I know she's listening as well. Saoirse, what do you make of that argument, kind of adaptation rather than mitigation?
I mean, you know, currently all approaches to addressing climate change are working on both. I mean, there is a certain amount of warming locked in now that we really can't change, as has been said, but there is also a significant amount that we can still limit. But, of course, there is also a need for mitigation and adaptation.
And for, yeah, like as you've said, you know, making room to welcome probably climate refugees in the near future and also... Yeah, as has been said, fossil fuels are deeply embedded in our systems. They're embedded in everything that we do in our day-to-day lives. I don't think that we fundamentally disagree actually on very much, but the reality is we do have to change that, and we can.
And the idea that we don't have alternatives to those things is actually not true. It's going to be very, very difficult for us to change those things, but we can do it, and there is already a significant effort to do so.
Let me bring in Anne who's listening to both of you. Anne Pipkington. Anne, are you enjoying the good weather?
No, I'm not.
Why not?
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Chapter 6: What role does individual action play in addressing climate issues?
51551, the text number, or give me a call on 0818 715 815. Dave, are you enjoying the weather or are you like Anne? Do you find it a bit too hot?
No, it's fabulous. I've driven from Cork, sorry, from Killarney to cashels today and I'm watching fields of hay and silage being made. We passed a bog outside Killarney, there's turf out in the bog drying. The children all have smiles on their faces. You can tell by the ages of them, half of them are ducking out of school. They're jumping in and out of the rivers and the sea.
We should be making the most of it and enjoying ourselves because in a couple of weeks' time it's going to be colder and wetter than previous years. And together with that, I mean, our climates are all changing all of the time. all over the world and I think we should embrace it rather than begrudge it. It's for a couple of days. It's not a heatwave. This is a couple of days of fine weather.
That's what it is.
Can you not do both, Dave? Oliver said that to Oliver Callum when I was talking to him earlier. He said, you know, you can do both. You can, you know, enjoy the 99 and going to the beach and, you know, watching, you know, the silage being cut and what have you and still accept that, you know, the climate is changing and if we don't do something about it, it'll be catastrophic. Absolutely.
Yes, and we're all doing our little bit. The government is doing their part. We're recycling. There are loads of new initiatives all the time.
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Chapter 7: How should we balance enjoying good weather with climate awareness?
And just let them all proceed and enjoy the 99s and enjoy the fine weather. If you're too warm, go to a stream, stick your toes in the water. It's beautiful. Latin up. It's absolutely beautiful. Saoirse, were you trying to get in there?
Yeah, could I come in here? Because I, you know what? Like, I totally agree. Like, put your toes in the stream, connect with the land around you, absolutely. And, you know, like, I had a childhood like that in... in County Cork, like you're saying, and it was beautiful.
I'm not talking about connecting with the land. I'm talking about bringing the temperature down and cooling yourself and enjoying yourself. Okay, absolutely. Not connecting with the land.
Can I just say, okay, I think we're referring to the same thing, to be honest, but can I say, you know, you said the government is doing their part and... They're not. They're just absolutely not. They're missing every single one of their targets. Most global, I think all global north countries are.
And so, you know, it would be great if we could rely on the government to do their part to address this. But they are absolutely not. And so that is something that we need to be aware of at the same time as we are, as you're saying, trying to get more comfortable with the temperature.
Guys, we can blame the government in a couple of weeks when it's raining too much, and then we can blame the government when it's flooding too much, and we can blame the government when it's too cold, but we can't expect the government just to weigh... I'm not apolitical, I'm not affiliates to any party, but we can't just expect the government to do everything all of the time, apart from doing their very best.
That's all. We can expect the government to address the end of the world.
We can expect the government to address climate change. And they absolutely are not, you know. And it is actually completely reasonable to expect the government to meet the commitments that they have made to addressing climate change, which they are currently not doing. And they openly admit that they are not doing. And, yeah, you know, I absolutely would expect the government to do their best.
If they were doing their best to address this, then I would not have an issue. But they are far from it.
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Chapter 8: Why is it important to acknowledge climate change in daily conversations?
I don't believe any of them are going to make these targets. And a target is only a target. That's the reality of it. Jesus, when I was a kid, I targeted to be a professional footballer. I'm not a professional footballer. Here, here, I agree.
We ought to talk.
That's not the way life is.
We're going to have to take a... Sorry, Susha, if you stay with... We're going to have to take a quick break. I don't know. I'll check during the break. I think Portugal may be hitting their targets. And I think Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia, there's a handful of other countries that are going to come quite close to our targets. And I think Ireland is blazing a trail in the wrong direction.
So, I mean, listen... That's not to say that the targets were realistic or not in the first place, but to suggest that absolutely nobody is hitting their targets would suggest everybody is doing the same thing. And they're not. You know, you can disagree with the targets, but we are certainly laggards in the room when it comes to those targets. But we will talk about this after a quick break.
0818 715 815.
If you want to get in touch, you can give me a call by phone or text on 51551. And James O'Neill is on the line. James, do you think... There should be more acknowledgement of climate change when we're talking about the good weather and going to the beach and buying 99s.
And all of that. I think we should really consider changing that word climate change. Because I think the reality right throughout the world, verified by the top scientists, we're in a phase of climate breakdown. And we begin to have this conversation when we have heat today. But we also look at the extremities of those flooding events.
All of this is going to become more frequent, more intensive, because we're getting very close to that 1.5 degree. And when we go over that, then it's nearly a self-fulfilling prophecy that hasn't signed off on it yet in a world context. But just going back to the previous conversation about where Ireland is in this whole journey. Many years ago, 25 years ago, I was over in Aarhus in Denmark.
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