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Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

Why Every Brain Metaphor in History Has Been Wrong [SPECIAL EDITION]

23 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What childhood observation influenced Karl Friston's theories?

0.031 - 25.429 Unknown

Let me tell you a little story. 1960s, in the summer, a little kid named Carl was playing around in the back of his garden. And he noticed all of these wood lice crawling around, you know, the little insects that can curl up into a ball. And what he noticed was that depending on whether they were in the sun or in the shade, they would move faster or slower. They behaved differently.

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And that's it. Carl grew up to be Professor Carl Friston, one of the most cited neuroscientists alive. He's been on this channel before, more times than I can count, and that childhood observation about wood lice, it never left him. He spent decades developing what he calls the free energy principle, which tries to explain all of behavior with one equation.

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Perception, action, learning, why you scratch your nose, all of it, Friston claims, comes down to minimizing a single mathematical quantity. There's an old physics joke, assume that we can model a spherical cow in a vacuum. The joke is about how scientists grotesquely simplify messy reality to tame it. The free energy principle might be the ultimate spherical cow.

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It promises to explain self-organization, this bewilderingly complicated phenomenon, with something so emaciated we might as well call it tautological. Even Friston himself agrees with this, by the way. This is what he said to us last time we spoke with him. The free energy principle... is not meant to be complicated or difficult to understand.

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It's actually, you know, almost tautologically simple. So the whole free energy principle is just basically a principle of least action pertaining to density dynamics, the dynamics of the evolution of not densities, but conditional densities. That's just it. This is before thermodynamics, this is before quantum mechanics. It's just about conditional probability distributions.

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So what do we do with this? Has Friston actually found some deep truth about how minds work? Or is he doing what many scientists do, which is mistaking the simplification for the actual thing? Well, it turns out there's a philosopher who has spent an incredible amount of time thinking about this exact problem. Professor Marvita Chiramuta teaches at Edinburgh University.

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Her book, The Brain Abstracted, is basically about what happens when neuroscientists simplify brains to study them, what gets captured, what gets lost.

158.116 - 175.575 Mazviita Chirimuuta

One of the answers that might seem obvious to people is that we pursue science because we're curious. We just want to know how the world works. We want to reveal, discover the underlying principles of the universe, which apply in all cases.

176.096 - 186.908 Mazviita Chirimuuta

Switching off the idea that you're just interested in nature for its own sake out of curiosity and saying, okay, how can we engineer these systems to actually do things that we want?

Chapter 2: How does the Spherical Cow Problem relate to scientific simplification?

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He thinks we simplify because we're too dumb to do otherwise. Our models work well enough for our purposes, but they're approximations, just useful fictions, if you like. The map, not the territory. Now, both of them agree that scientists need to simplify, but where they disagree is what that means about reality. Simplicius had history on his side. or at least a certain type of history.

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Galileo, Newton, Einstein, they all believed pretty explicitly that nature was fundamentally orderly and that finding simple laws meant you'd found something true. Einstein famously said, God doesn't play dice. And no, he didn't actually think God had anything to do with it, but he was expressing faith that the universe is at the very bottom legible.

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Now, Chiramuta has gone all in on Ignorantio's position. She thinks successful science tells us we've become good at building useful simplifications, and that doesn't prove that nature is simple. The philosopher Nicholas of Cusa had a phrase for this attitude. Dr. Ignorantia. Basically, learned ignorance. You study hard, you learn a lot, and what you learn includes what you don't know.

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Now, when we interviewed Chiramuta, she'd been following Francois Chollet's videos. And for those of you who don't know, Francois is a friend of the channel. He's our mascot. He's one of my heroes. And he's got this idea called the kaleidoscope hypothesis, which is basically that...

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The universe is made out of code and underneath all of the apparent gnarly mess that we see there is intrinsic underlying structure.

400.184 - 424.354 Francois Chollet

Everyone knows what a kaleidoscope is, right? It's like this cardboard tube with a few bits of colored glass in it. These few bits of original information get mirrored and repeated and transformed, and they create this tremendous richness of complex patterns. It's beautiful.

424.894 - 453.988 Francois Chollet

The kaleidoscope hypothesis is this idea that the world in general and any domain in particular follows the same structure, that it appears on the surface to be extremely rich and complex, and infinitely novel with every passing moment. But in reality, it is made from the repetition and composition of just a few atoms of meaning.

454.008 - 471.623 Francois Chollet

A big part of intelligence is the process of mining your experience of the world to identify bits that are repeated. and to extract them, extract these unique atoms of meaning. When we extract them, we call them abstractions.

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Now, she's not saying that Cholet is wrong. She's saying that he's making a philosophical bet. Might be right, might be wrong. It's the same bet that Plato made.

Chapter 3: What is the Kaleidoscope Hypothesis proposed by Francois Chollet?

642.54 - 663.424 Joscha Bach

What a computer ultimately is, is it's a causal insulator. The computer is a layer on which you can produce an arbitrary reality. For instance, the world of Minecraft. You can walk around in the world of Minecraft and it's running very well on a Mac and it's running very well on a PC. And if you are inside of the world, you don't know what you're running on.

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663.404 - 689.698 Joscha Bach

It's not going to have any information about the nature of the CPU that it's on, the color of the casing of the computer, the voltage that the computer is running on, the place that the computer is standing in, in the parent universe, our universe. So the computer is insulating this world of Minecraft from our world. It makes it possible that an arbitrary world is happening inside of this box.

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689.678 - 714.066 Joscha Bach

And our brain is also such a causal insulator. It's possible for us to have thoughts that are independent of what happens around us. We can envision a future that is not much tainted by the present. We can remember a past that is independent from the present in which we are. And it's necessary for us. Our brain has evolved as such a causal insulator as well to allow us to

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714.046 - 720.173 Joscha Bach

give rise to universes that are different from this one. For instance, future worlds, so we can plan for being in them.

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Bargh says that money is an example of a causal pattern. It's not the ink on a banknote. It's not the electrons in your bank server. It persists across and ensconces in various physical instantiations. So paper, coins, gold, digital ledgers. And yet, they say, money causally affects the world. It gets you fed. It starts wars. It builds cities. He says that software is the same.

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A program is an abstract pattern that can run on many types of chips, maybe even neurons. And that pattern has causal power because it controls whatever substrate it's running on. The same algorithm produces the same effects regardless of what physical stuff implements it. So the invariance, that sameness across substrates, is the causal mechanism, the pattern itself, at least according to Yosha.

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He even accepts that physics is causally closed. He says that the abstract description and the physical description are two ways of looking at the same causal structure. Neither is reducible to the other, both are real. But I'm pretty sure Chiramuta would ask, who identifies that invariance?

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When we say the same algorithm runs on different chips, completely different things are actually physically happening, right? Different voltages, different electrons doing different things. The sameness is something that we impose. It exists in our description, not in nature. And as for the money example, money only works because of human interpretive practices, right?

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If you take away the humans and their agreements, it's just paper, right? Money is just paper. And the causal power is actually in the social substrate that participates in it. Now, I think Yosha has taken a useful way of talking about complex systems and promoted it to metaphysics. And that's simplicius all over again, right?

Chapter 4: Is software truly a representation of spirit according to Joscha Bach?

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Description of reality as we perceive it, enjoy it, conceptualize it, live through. Model of the system. Ontology to me is the ontology of the model, it's not the metaphysics of the system. I hope I haven't, no, made a complete mess here, okay? So, metaphysics, no minimum system, whatever the source of the data that we get, fantastic. The data don't speak about the source.

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The music of the radio is not about the radio. But there is a radio. Of course, the music is what we perceive. The music has its own ontology, structure, etc. The model. The model is, at that point, what we enjoy. Why the digital revolution has changed the nature of the world around us? Not metaphysically, but ontologically, so the re-ontologizing.

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Because some of the things that we have inherited from modernity... a sense of the world that is now being restructured, and a certain understanding of the world, so re-epistemologizing as well, of their world. We go back to this temptation of talking about reality as if it were something that we need to grasp, catch, portray, hook, spears.

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When in fact, the way I prefer to understand it is as... malleable, understandable in a variety of ways, something that provides constraints. It doesn't mean that you can interpret in any possible way, but leaves room for different kind of interpretations. So if the flow of data that come from whatever is out there, and again, I'd rather be sort of agnostic about it,

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can be modeled in a variety of ways. One way is to, especially 21st century, given the technology we have, et cetera, to interpret that as an enormous computational kind of environment. It's perfectly fine as long as we don't think that there is our right metaphysics. Is the correct ontology for the 21st century?

1259.902 - 1282.543 Unknown

Now, this is not relativism because, on the other hand, different models of the same system are comparable depending on why you're developing that particular model. And let me give you a completely trivial example. Suppose you ask me whether that building is the same building. That question has no real answer because it depends on why you're asking that question.

1283.043 - 1301.92 Unknown

If your question is asked because you want to have directions, I'm going to say, oh yeah, that's the same building, sir. The same building? Yeah, absolutely, no. Go there, turn left, no traffic light, sir. But if your question is like same function, I say, no, it's a completely different building. It was a school, now it's a hospital. Next question. So is it or is it not the same?

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That, that question is the mistake.

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an absolute question that provides no interface what computer scientists call level of abstraction chosen for one particular purpose so that i can compare whether an answer is better than another let me crack a joke for the philosophers who might be listening to this huh does your ship is it the same or is not the same who is asking why because if it is the taxpayer the tax man

Chapter 5: What cultural illusions surround the concept of AGI?

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It's almost like it's at any point learning how to refine and optimize the structure. Okay, so I think we should distinguish three things.

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1689.107 - 1713.591 Joscha Bach

Predict, control, understand first. So predict means that you say, I'm going to do a thing. What will be this value of my machine? What will appear on my computer screen in the future? That is predict. Control is, I want to measure this thing in the future and I want it to come out 17. Right? That's control. Understand is a lot like predict, except there's a human in the loop.

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1713.611 - 1742.652 Joscha Bach

Understand means that I have such a small collection of facts. That you will predict and you will do it with facts that I can communicate to another human in kind of this compact fits on an index card. That's almost understand. And so I think these machines let us predict. They let us control. We have to derive our own understanding at this moment, right? We can experiment now on the artifact.

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1742.812 - 1752.632 Joscha Bach

We can look at the 200 million predicted structures, not just the 200,000 experimental structures in order to help us understand. But it doesn't do the act of understanding for us.

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It does the act of predict and maybe control. The problem is these two goals actually pull against each other.

1758.271 - 1785.747 Mazviita Chirimuuta

I think we're at this moment in science now because we have these tools like LLMs for language and ConvNets and visual neuroscience are being used as predictive models of neuronal responses, which don't have that mathematical legibility that originally, so when I was trained in the field, that people aspired to have. And so you have this...

1785.727 - 1795.781 Mazviita Chirimuuta

possible conflicts, you can either pursue that goal of understanding or you can pursue the goal of prediction, but it seems like you can't have both at the same time.

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Now on the one hand, people go into neuroscience because they want to understand the mind. They want that feeling where something clicks and you suddenly get how it works. That's what drew Chiramuta to the field in the first place. That's what keeps people up late at night reading papers. But on the other hand, there's just prediction, building tools that work.

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If you model forecast data accurately, maybe you don't care whether it's true in some deeper sense. So LLMs are getting unreasonably good. They are winning math Olympiads. I mean, as of last week, actually, GPT 5.2 apparently discovered a new theory. Well, it solved one of these problems that Terence Tao had on his website. This is insane. But does it actually understand anything?

Chapter 6: How do prediction and understanding differ in the context of AI?

2069.497 - 2091.897 Luciano Floridi

In my opinion, the book doesn't have knowledge. The book is an archival record of some ideas that I was able to put together in a nice structure. But you cannot have a conversation with the book. Knowledge only can go to work when it's embodied. You cannot throw a bunch of engineering manuals and cement into a gorge and expect to get a bridge. Because the books don't have knowledge.

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2092.078 - 2093.901 Luciano Floridi

Teams have knowledge. Organizations have knowledge.

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Yes, knowledge is social. Communities accomplish what individuals can't. But collective knowledge is still knowledge from somewhere. This matters, right? It's shaped by particular questions, particular tools, and particular blind spots.

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2108.714 - 2133.456 Mazviita Chirimuuta

I think one of the interesting things about this phenomenon, not only of LLMs, but the internet as this idea that it's the repository of all human knowledge, is that it goes along with this idea almost that knowledge doesn't have to be perspectival. It doesn't have to be like of a place, of a community. It kind of can float free of the situation in which this knowledge was acquired.

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2133.957 - 2155.68 Mazviita Chirimuuta

That's kind of the aspiration of these ideas sort of of a universal repository of knowledge but what this perspectivalist position actually sort of points us to is actually knowledge is inherently of a place of a community we acquire knowledge

2155.66 - 2185.345 Mazviita Chirimuuta

not by being completely open-minded to everything that's possible to know, but actually by narrowing our view, discounting possibilities, actually is what allows you to pursue a line of inquiry and actually pin down some information about, say, the natural world, which is humanly achievable. So the contrast I'm trying to make here is between a view which says that Knowledge is perspectival.

2185.705 - 2208.55 Mazviita Chirimuuta

It's inherently from a human point of view, which means that it's inherently finite. We cannot aspire to this sort of universal free-floating knowledge because as finite human beings, we can only achieve knowledge of the world through recognizing our limitations. And this notion of like, you can have non-perspectival knowledge, like everything in the internet,

2208.53 - 2233.558 Mazviita Chirimuuta

based on all of the different possible perspectives all blended together, this somehow gives us a God-side view. LLMs aspire to be this every-person voice, but it's precisely because they don't have a particular socialisation into a finite community that they're not reliable, that we can't pin them down to...

2233.538 - 2251.952 Unknown

actually um what would be a kind of honest trustworthy perspective so chiramuta has this idea that she calls haptic realism most of the philosophy of science treats knowledge like vision you stand back and you observe reality from a distance she thinks it's more like touch

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