Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
A.I. That Scams the Scammers | Beat Spam Calls
Sun, 30 Mar 2025
How A.I. is collection money from spam callers. How to get rid of spam calls.Do Not Pay https://donotpay.comJosh's IG https://www.instagram.com/joshuabrowder12/?hl=enFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [email protected] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69
Chapter 1: What is the Federal Do Not Call List?
There's something called the Federal Do Not Call List. So it's a government list, and it says that if you're on this list, they're not allowed to call you, and if they do, you can charge them $1,500 for every call. So the first thing the robot will do is it will do all the clicking and sign you up to this government list.
Once you're on the list, the next time you get a call, you can trap them, like I said. You can pick up the phone and say, yes, I'm very interested in what you're selling. Here's my card number. Instead of giving your real card number, you're giving this honey trap. And that's how it gets all the details.
And then finally, the software and AI generates this demand letter saying, you violated the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. Please... give me the settlement money. What they're worried about is other people figuring out that they've done something wrong. And so they will often settle and sign a confidentiality agreement.
They'll say, I'm not going to give you $1,500, but I'll give you $750 if you don't tell anyone. And that's good for consumers because they could just sign it and get their money.
Hey, this is Matt Cox and I am here with Joshua Brower. He is the founder and CEO of Do Not Pay. He's got a really interesting thing that he's doing right now. So we're going to get into the interview. Check it out.
My company helps people fight back using AI. It gets people money from big companies and people scamming them, gets them justice. The first use case a few years ago was parking tickets, helping people get out of their tickets. And we've since expanded to over 200 areas of the law, including what you were mentioning, which is suing robocallers.
There's an amazing law that says you can get $1,500 every time someone calls you. But these robocallers, they hide behind spam identities. They don't tell you who they are. And so what we thought a do not pay is a trap.
and that is a credit card and when they try and sell you something you can give them the credit card and the transaction declines but it gets their business name, address and phone number and then the AI generates a demand letter and lawsuit to get you your money.
And this is really popular with people because these robocallers are just getting out of control and someone needs to fight back against them.
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Chapter 2: How can AI help in fighting robocalls?
That's a great job for AI. It goes in and it cancels the
subscription for you and all these barriers that these big companies put in the way such as saying hey um do you want to stay for three more months at a discounted rate and just to waste your time and get you to give in ai is ruthless and it will just get through all of that and get it done so we like to think that so these big companies they do things called dark patterns where it's these business strategies to rip people off and ai is the solution to that
Um, what about like, like, uh, credit, uh, dispute letters? You know, what if you've got bad credit or can it take, can it do those that help fix your credit or help get things taken off your credit?
Yeah. So my mission at Do Not Pay is to replace lawyers so that the average person doesn't need to hire a lawyer. And we looked at credit dispute companies and these companies are evil because they charge people thousands of dollars just to do a very simple fix on their credit report. And so we decided to replace them. And we didn't know anything about credit reporting.
And so what we did is I had one of my team members interview for a job at a credit repair agency to find out exactly what they do so that we can automate it with AI. And we figured out what they did and we've got that as a product now.
Similar to other types of disputes, it's really about just sending in these letters under the Fair Credit Reporting Act and causing so much paperwork for these companies that they don't respond and then the consumer wins and the negative items get removed.
That would be something that a consumer would previously pay thousands of dollars for, but it's now included in our list of services and people love that.
Do you have any stories or anything of any specific cases or any more of anything interesting that, I don't even know what I'm trying to say, any interesting cases that you've handled?
Yeah, recently we had an elderly consumer from Boston use our service to get out of a timeshare. They had got suckered into the timeshare agreement and the AI found a way out. There's a cooling off period in the timeshare agreement and by law, and it generated this really aggressive letter and got this person out of the timeshare.
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Chapter 3: What inspired Joshua Brower to start Do Not Pay?
That'll keep you alive.
Yes. Yes. Or you spin it around and you say, you know what? Let me try to see it from the other perspective coming back towards me. Yeah.
Now I'm not falling for it. Yeah. Good times. Yeah. So what so what what is the scam? What is a scam? Because there's no one scam now. But is there a scam or what scams?
A scam like for the definition of this podcast is kind of an idea to gain money. Like I might have an idea like, hey, I'm like I might have come across a checkbook and go, you know what? I got an idea. I'm going to write a check off of this guy's account who we don't know to you. You're going to deposit in your account. We're going to split it.
Right.
You might go, hey, I'm down with that. You know what I'm saying? That is what I consider. I don't know who it would be. You'd be shocked. Look at you. You'd be shocked. You would be shocked. I know a guy. Yeah. You would absolutely be shocked. It's unbelievable. But that is a scam. Or even I consider a scam is like the, what I was privy to was the shoplifters. Like I knew four ladies.
that did shoplifting, right? And like I was lucky enough to sit in on one of their meetings, you know, because they have one person that draws in the security. So the other three are actually gonna steal and get away and the other one's gonna draw security. Draw security, like act like she's not stealing anything. Be absolutely sloppy.
Obvious.
Yes.
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Chapter 4: How does Do Not Pay use AI for legal disputes?
Oh, I've met, there have been a few billionaires. Listen, I've met like three guys. I want to say, I think, I feel like it's three guys. I know for sure it's, no, it is. I think it's three guys that worked at NASA. Three guys that worked at NASA that I met that worked at NASA. that were all in there. All of them, pictures.
I'm not saying, I don't know if there's a correlation there, but the fact that you meet one person in the real world that worked at NASA is odd. How often does that happen? Even if you lived in Florida, that's odd. To meet three? Listen, the military dorm... My buddy Pete said the military dorm, out of the entire military dorm, there's like 32 to 35 guys that don't have charges for pictures.
Out of 150 guys, there's, what, close to 120 that are there for pictures.
I just saw that in the paper the other day about a raid with the pitchers. Didn't I show you where I got the message where it comes through like, hi, my name is such and such. I want to talk with you.
No, I get that all the time. I get where it's just a random text. It's like, hey, hey, John or Sally. And you're like, this isn't Sally. Oh, what's your name? Stop it. Stop it. I don't know what you're doing. I don't have time for this foolishness.
I don't even respond to those. I'm talking, I get a text message or a messenger request. I told you about that one time and like, hi, I'm 16 and I'm like, oh my God. Right.
No, I don't get that far. Like, I have gotten... Well, no, because I'm like, oh, she's pretty.
Let me just... Slash the... Start jumping on it.
Yeah.
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Chapter 5: What are the subscription costs for Do Not Pay?
Horror stories. I wasn't around them, too. The ones I was around were probably successful. They weren't just picture watchers.
They were creators. They were diddlers.
Diddlers on the roof.
Oh, man.
Are you serious? No hands on would be there at all. Oh, at your place? At your place. No, at the low? At the low. Yeah, they were there. The hands on? Yeah. Yeah, these are guys like brought somebody across state lines. I told you. Didn't I ever tell you?
It couldn't have been a full rape. No, this is a low.
Right. That's what I'm saying. Oh, I don't know about the full. This is somebody who made the attempt or was actually showed up someplace.
Right. The ones that I saw were absolutely hands on.
Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Well, listen, there was a guy in Germany who flew from Germany to the United States thinking he was meeting like a 14 year old boy or something. And it's legal in Germany, by the way. Like the age of consent was like 14. The boy was 14. He flies all the way over here, gets arrested, says, hey, I haven't done anything wrong. I was in my country.
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