917 how to ask for more money & land your dream job (careers & income Q&A with Emily Bowen)
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All right, we've got a question from Kayla. How do you negotiate a pay rise when your pay is industry standard, but because your role is higher volume and compliance heavier than most of the industry, you feel underpaid? Today, I'm talking with Emily Bowen. She is a HR consultant to the stars. She's a recruitment operative. She's a... work podcaster on This Is Work. She's an all-round legend. You've heard her on the show before.
How can you negotiate a pay rise if you feel underpaid?
You'd love to see it. You'd love to see her here. She's also the operations manager at Boldside. Em, welcome back to PodVegas.
Oh, thanks, Glenn. Do you know, I was trying to remember the last time that you and I actually recorded together. It's been some years, but here we are. A lot's changed.
Yeah.
I mean, you're growing a family.
Yeah.
I'm probably just as old and tired and- Growing an empire of some sort, I'm sure.
Growing body fat, all that stuff. Let's move on. Look, maybe you just wrote my new LinkedIn bio for me, but you've described me in a few ways that I haven't been described before. I think I can add some value here though, so that's the win.
So what are we saying to Kayla?
Yeah, so it's interesting. Look, I've had a heads up on the questions coming at us today and Kayla's probably the first of a few where I go, there's this really interesting reflection of feelings coming through in something that I'd love to reframe as being more data-driven. So we've got this sense from Kayla that she's feeling underpaid. What I like about what she's included in her question is that she also seems to have a really good grasp on what some of the more, I guess, quantitative or objective measures of why she feels like she should be paid more. And that's what I'd love to focus on.
So I've got a question for you, Em. Like, so if we draw this kind of axis here and if, for example, so we'll say compliance heavier roles. So I'll call that risk. Okay. So if it's compliance heavy, there's risk, right?
Yeah.
And you would expect if on the left-hand side going up is dollar. So the more risky and compliance-driven roles we have should – attract more money.
You would think so, and particularly if Kayla's doing a good job. And I do think we need to be mindful that sometimes being in a busy role and feeling swamped all the time can lead us to just feel underpaid. So that's why I want to be really data-driven about this.
And this is why I wanted to talk about this question that Kayla put in. If you look at this, so I'm drawing here kind of at the end where it's a risky environment. So Kayla might be operating... there so decent good pay high risk within that kind of square there there's going to be market forces right and different industries and as you said the data but what i want to kind of just talk about because i was thinking about this like yeah compliance heavier i'm feeling underpaid guess what friends There is a world we live in where you go to the local circus and carnival and those crappy steel roller coasters that they're portable set up. The risk is up here, but the pay on the operator is down there.
So I would say being a carny is a high-risk endeavour, strapping people to roller coasters.
Yeah.
That's a risky environment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you've got a lower paid person doing that.
Yeah, so true.
I just was thinking about that.
So is Kayla a carny? Is that the question?
Probably.
Is she a carny or is she working in some sort of, you know, super fund or somewhere where if you get it wrong, it's a big deal?
I'll throw to you, but that's just one I'd get off my chest around this industry risk, market forces within.
And I like the place you've gone because I think what I would encourage Kayla to do is do the double check on – okay, where have I gotten my data from in regards to that comparison to others in the industry, you know, the higher volume, the compliance heavier, and just make sure that you're not just feeling overworked.
Well, I was going to just go back to the screen and circle feel. You could feel underpaid, but you might be in that box that I drew where you're in the top 10% relative to your world.
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