British Law - Made in Brussels?
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Thank you for downloading More or Less from the BBC. This is the version first broadcast on Radio 4. If you're a regular listener to the shorter World Service podcast of More or Less, just letting you know that the final item in this program is one you may already have heard. Here's Tim Harford. Hello and welcome to a new series of More or Less, the show that takes the num out of numbers and the tat out of statistics. This week, how an 18th century Presbyterian minister might help find a lost passenger aeroplane, and the statistics behind this great achievement and what came after it.
The tape is broken and so is the record athletes have long been dreaming about. But at first, Bannister knows little about it. He stumbles into the arms of his coach, completely exhausted by his magnificent effort.
But first, the parties are shaping up for elections to the European Parliament on the 22nd of May. And it's good to see the UK Independence Party leading with a bold statistical claim on one of its posters, much better than an airbrushed photograph of a party leader. That claim is 75% of our laws are now made in Brussels. Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg's been hitting back. He says the number is 7%. If the 75% figure sounds familiar to you, you may be a loyal more or less listener. We looked at it five years ago when UKIP told us that the statistic came from a speech given by Hans-Gert Pöttering, President of the European Parliament at the time. We listened to that speech so that you didn't have to.
Here's what we said in the summer of 2009.
So, there you are.
I think. Actually, my German's not very good. Ruth?
Ja?
How's your German?
Nicht so schlecht. Ich glaube, dass mein Deutsch ganz gut ist.
Well, that's lucky. So, what did Hansgert Pötting actually say?
I meant, can you translate? He's saying that of all European Union laws, the European Parliament is involved in 75% of them.
So what about European influence on British law?
Well, he hasn't said anything about that. He's saying that the European Parliament is now very influential in drawing up European legislation relative to other European institutions, such as the European Commission and the Council of Ministers. It's nothing to do with European influence on British law.
OK, well, dankeschön, Ruth Alexander.
Bitteschön.
Oh, stop showing off. Let's talk to the UK Independence Party. I spoke to Paul Nuttall, member of the European Parliament and chairman of UKIP. Was he aware that Mr Pöttering's comments had, shall we say, been misinterpreted in his party's video? No, I'm not aware of that interpretation of those remarks. But on the 75% claim, Hansgert Pöttering's claim, you accept that you may have misunderstood that one? I accept that. I mean, I don't speak German. However, the interpretation from the European Parliament, which is up on YouTube, comes from European Parliament's interpreters. The quote is sufficiently narrow. I agree, there's a translation, but it's just a 10-second, 15-second slice of Mr. Pottering talking.
Unless you know what he said just before and just afterwards, which we do because we went and had a look, you would just misunderstand the meaning. But he meant, he clearly meant...
How is the claim '75% of British laws are made in Brussels' being used in the European Parliament debate?
that this was increasing involvement of the European Parliament in European law, not the increasing involvement of European institutions in British law. And so you're misquoting him. If you want to make that case, that's fine, but surely you shouldn't be misquoting European officials. We're not misquoting the European officials. It was the interpreter in the European Parliament whose voice that you can hear on the YouTube video. Not a UKIP member. It is an employee of the European Parliament. It is a European Parliament interpreter, not UKIP. So we're not misrepresenting anybody. But you've edited it in a way. You've just taken this narrow slice in a way that allows it to be misunderstood. Well, that needs to be looked into.
There's nothing else I can say about that. That was an edited extract from our programme in 2009. So why is UKIP still using the figure of 75%?
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–3:38
2
How is the claim '75% of British laws are made in Brussels' being used in the European Parliament debate?
3:38–10:01
3
What did Hans-Gert Pöttering actually say about the European Parliament's role?
10:01–13:47
4
Why do UKIP and Nick Clegg quote such different percentages (75% vs 7%)?
13:47–28:24