The Man Who Built the Apple Store Never Tried to Sell You Anything
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Turn back the clock to 2000. Apple was a 25-year-old company that had largely been defeated. Now they invented the personal computer. Steve came back in ninety seven. Apple had 5% market share. Microsoft had 95%. Now if he translated that to a baseball game. They were behind 19 to 1.
That was Ron Johnson, creator of the Apple Sore and author of Shop Different on why the world's most powerful retail brand never tries to sell you anything. I'm Motley Fool analyst Jason Moser. Ron spent years working directly alongside Steve Jobs to build the Apple store from the ground up. And his new book reveals what that experience taught him about retail, leadership, and what makes customers stay genuinely loyal for life. In this conversation, Ron and I talked about the inside story of Apple's retail gamble, why he thinks new Apple CEO John Turnus doesn't. Need to be in a hurry, and what his very public stumble at JCPenney taught him that no amount of success ever could. We hope you enjoy. Welcome to Motley Full Conversations.
I'm Jason Moser and today I am excited to welcome the creator of the Apple store, Mr. Ron Johnson. Now prior to Apple, Ron was a merchant leader at Target. And post Apple, he served as the CEO of JCPenney. And he's also an author. His new book, Shop Different, How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius, is out now and available wherever you get your books. Ron, welcome to the show. Well Jason, thanks for having me on. It's great to be with you. It's a big thrill to meet you here and I I just looking forward to the conversation. I think I just want to get started here. You know, your career is unique. It covers such a broad cross section of the overall retail environment. So I guess I'd like to start at the beginning.
How did Ron Johnson’s early retail experience at Target shape his career?
Sure. Talk about your time at Target. What was it that drew you to that opportunity?
Well, I was in business school. I went to Harvard Business School, but I'd grown up in a suburb of Minneapolis where Target was founded. Yeah, where Dayton Hudson was based. And I loved being in stores. And so when I was graduating from business school, I had offers like a lot of the kids did to go into investment banking, like at Goldman or Solomon both offered me jobs. But I kind of wanted to do something I might love for a lifetime. And I didn't think it was banking. And so I picked retail. I love being in stores. And so I went to work with a subsidiary at the time of Dayton Hudson, which got renamed Target, as most of your people know, uh called Mervyn's on the West Coast. And I started after business school, I got download trucks.
Which was really fun. I could do it really fast. I could get a big trailer done in about forty five minutes on a good day and filled on the floor and in the stock room. And then they let me work on the cash wrap and straighten clothes and but eventually I uh you know ended up at Target. at about age thirty. It was a great time to be there. It was about nineteen ninety, and that's when the discount wars were at their peak. You know, the US had about ten to twelve discount stores, one for every region it seemed. But it was clear it was going to come down to Walmart and Target. And Target was the higher price suburban differentiator and Walmart was the low cost rural operator. But they were now moving into the suburbs and it was a great battle.
And so I kind of cut my teeth on retail really as a merchant at Target. And that was a big part of what I did.
Okay, so now we're getting to a seminal moment in your life. And and that of Apples, I might say, as well. You go to Apple. Now, how did that unfold? I mean, going to such a an important and amazing business, and even at that time, maybe it wasn't quite where it is today, still a big move. How did that unfold?
Well, it was actually pretty contrary. No one thought it was a good idea for me to go there. Because if you go turn back the clock to two thousand. Okay, this is when I went to Apple in nineteen ninety nine, late ninety nine. Apple was a twenty five year old company that had largely been defeated. No, they invented the personal computer.
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:03–2:07
2
How did Ron Johnson’s early retail experience at Target shape his career?
2:07–7:22
3
Why did Steve Jobs decide to build Apple Stores despite industry skepticism?
7:22–13:35
4
What does ‘selling nothing’ mean in the Apple Store’s customer‑experience strategy?
13:35–18:31
5
How did Apple’s leadership transition to John Turnus affect its strategic focus?
18:31–21:42
6
Why does Ron Johnson say Apple doesn’t need to rush innovation?
21:42–24:24