Chapter 1: What recent event shifted the focus of the podcast?
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Hello and welcome to My Therapist Goes With Me with me, Vogue Williams and Joanne McNally. Okay, Stephen Bartlett. UK's biggest podcast. So he has the biggest podcast and everybody has gone kind of wild and we probably would have talked about this on the main had Brooklyn Beckham not come out with the news that he came out with. Taken up our time, yeah.
Yeah, so it just felt more important to cover Brooklyn but we also feel it's important to cover this because... Also, I do hope that we were met... When I left the pod yesterday and it was like I'd been... something had kind of passed through me. It was like I'd done ayahuasca. I was so high on the adrenaline of the podcast, but I was like, I hope we weren't too hard on him.
I think that everybody has an opinion on the thing. At the end of the day, it's a really sad situation and you'd hope that they will find a way to figure it out. The only thing that like, I just feel, I just think it's a step too far coming out against your family like that. It just feels, it's like a dirty game. It's like what Harry did. It's grim. Harry, Prince Harry. Is he still Prince?
Oh yeah, no, that's Andrew.
Okay, yes, he is still Prince.
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Chapter 2: Who is Stephen Bartlett and why is he significant?
He's just kind of rando Harry now, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's rando Harry. But yeah, so I just... I just want to add that in, I hope, because we were very worked up and I hope we weren't too harsh on him.
No. So, okay. So Stephen Bartlett, he does loads of different topics. I actually saw, and I listened to an episode of him and Esther Perel because I do really like her. You actually put me on to her and I really, really like her stuff. And he was talking to her about dating apps and she was kind of calling him out and he was like talking about how it's so hard for men.
And like, there's this man who spent like two years, maybe it was five years on a dating app trying to find a girl. And this other man who was the most swiped, he did the most swipes. So he swiped like over 2000 people. He had conversations with a thousand. And then he only ended up having a date with one that didn't work out. And he was like, like, how are people supposed to meet each other?
And she was literally like, dude, they're meant to go out and meet each other. She was like, how long did he spend messaging people in his house when he could have been out meeting actual real people? Anyway, he did a podcast with a YouTuber called Chris Williamson. And they were talking about the declining birth rates.
First of all, two men that have no children discussing declining birth weight is an unusual topic for them to touch on.
I think they were coming at it from a space of, you know, this male loneliness epidemic. And there's a lot of men who are, as we call incels, involuntary celibates, who can't find a woman to ride them. There's a new trend where de-centering men, women are financially secure. Marriage and kids isn't what it was. It's all kind of falling apart.
And women are actually quite good at being on their own. We kind of have our community. We have good friends. And they're talking about, are these men entitled to have sex and keep their legacy and keep their genes going? Because all these men are going to die out.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of male loneliness discussed in the episode?
He's so clearly... regurgitating shit that he's heard other people say because he thinks it makes him sound smart but anyway obviously the internet blew up do you know what this is this is what bothers me about this thing there's no conversation they're all about could men Be kinder. More charming. Buy a suit. Pay for dates. Do bits like that. Instead of holding women down and pregnant.
Which I know isn't what he means.
Some of the points that they were talking about and they were agreeing with each other. Men show up on dating apps and are getting nothing. Well, they obviously, just because they show up doesn't mean everybody wants them. And then women should practice being receptive to men. Pardon?
Yeah. Do you know what? I think that, well, those lads who aren't getting any luck, they need to come on our journey, Jo. and be an 8.6 by May. But I also feel like... Poor Joe.
Just came on to this podcast probably thinking, my hair looks nice today and Joanna dragged him right in.
Joe, I don't know if we can get you to an 8.6, but we'll get you somewhere. We've got to make do. Well, when Vogue posted the photo of you yesterday, several people messaged me thinking they thought you were Brooklyn Beckham. There you go, Joseph.
I did get that a little bit. And he is good looking now, Brooklyn Beckham. We can't take that away from him.
I do think it's because my hair needs a cut at the moment and I hadn't washed it in several days. And that's no comment on Brooklyn. I just think you need a haircut.
But back to the lads. You're not entitled to sex and kids. Like, if you're that worried about your legacy, buy a bench in a park. Do you know what I mean?
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Chapter 4: How do societal expectations affect men's dating experiences?
If you lined up any of my ex-boyfriends, I wouldn't match with any of them on a dating app. Actually, no, sorry, I matched with two. But the other five, I wouldn't have. But when I met them in person, I was absolutely obsessed with them. So I'm just saying.
I think it's like trying to get out. I know it's not easy, but trying to get out and meet people in real life is always going to be the better option because you will be so picky. Like I always said that about Sven. Not that he's not good looking, but wouldn't have been my type of the time. I wouldn't have swiped for him. And we're married now with three kids.
So better to meet somebody in real life. Yeah. He's got a snotty nose and it stinks to drink on a ski slope.
Luckily for you, you are out of the trenches now. And as a woman who was very much still in them and is a product of my generation and has decentered men and now spends all my time indoors in my office. This is what I was going to say. Men, exfoliate. It's not hard. Exfoliate. Fix your scalp issues. Do not post dating profile photos in a gaming seat. Yes. Yes. Agree. That is a huge flag.
Do not own a gaming seat.
Don't have tiny windows in the background because I'll know it's a basement. Do not post a photo where you're wearing a Britney mic because I know you are gaming. Don't eat your dinner off a clothes horse. Don't display every bottle of Jack Daniels like it's some achievement around your house. Stop watching anime porn. Good points. Potentially buy nose clippers. All holes should be free of hair.
I'm just trying to help.
Well, mine would be more along the lines of like treat women with respect. Don't just expect women to want to jump at you. Understand like what the person you're trying to date enjoys. Go out.
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Chapter 5: What controversial opinions were shared about declining birth rates?
Have fun. Don't be expectant. Be respectful. Be polite.
That's not hard. The conversation was very problematic because it's like, where was the argument for men bringing something else to the table instead of the idea of being like handcuff a woman to a fucking radiator and stick a baby in her against her will? Which I'm sure that's not what he was suggesting, but it certainly sounded like it.
It definitely came across like that. And I always think that like, I hate this kind of cancel culture, which is really going in and out. And I know that we're talking about it, but we're allowed to have the conversation online. I don't agree with the cancel culture. I don't think he's going to get cancelled, but I do think he needs to be more careful.
If he's going to go in on such a heavy topic like that and so many heavy topics that he does go in on, just be more careful because you've pissed off every single female that's listened to your podcast.
And the conversation also was about how it's kind of dangerous because he first presented as a kind of mental health guru for men. And because he's got this really, there was a comedian online whose name escapes me. I'm sorry. but he did a really good video about it and he was saying that he's presenting these really right-wing ideas, but like in front of a ring light with a really soft voice.
Shabazz.
Shabazz. Yes. Shabazz, that's him. Yeah, he did a great video on it. Really good comedian, really funny guy. And he was like, that's the danger. They're really toxic conversations, which women are not involved in. And he's, it's coming across almost like a thought, like he's just being thoughtful. Whereas actually it's like, dude,
you sound like you want to roofie the world and just shag us against our will so there you go on that note Joanne go out and ride someone and get pregnant please you're part of the problem okay well that's why I'm on the hot journey I think it's really I'm going on this journey whether you like it or not you're not yes I am yes I am Hi, Vogue and Joanne.
I matched with this guy I remembered from our teenage years. Glow up alert. He's now in his 30s like me. Suddenly very good looking, decent job, brand new car, the full rebrand. We were messaging constantly. Yeah, yeah, that's Joanne in six months. We were messaging constantly, met up twice and wow, red flags everywhere like a parade with sirens.
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Chapter 6: How does the discussion address the concept of entitlement in relationships?
You shouldn't. It's a homophobic slur. Yeah. I just feel like some people don't get it. But then I'm like, sorry, that man who's treating that face like that. Like what age are you that you're like thinking that it's cool to do that? And do your parents speak like that at home? Where has that come from?
They probably do. You know what the older generation are like?
I love it. I bloody love it.
I was seeing a guy before and again, he was sag at this and I can't even say it. I think it's, I actually wouldn't even say it.
Auntie Tina keeps doing it at the weekend. She was home with Amber and she was like, I'm going out for a fag. And Amber's like, I told you you can't say that in front of people.
I still say fags I still call smokes fags yeah but that's I'm old school you're not you're not using the end of yeah but anyway he was calling he was using the F word and I was like dude you can't use and he was like what like shocked that he couldn't use the word and it did it made me it made me not like him anymore to be honest
no it really it really puts a dampener somebody can say but I know somebody else who says the odd thing and I'm like oh and it just comes out as a joke in a conversation and I'm like what the fuck and it happens like quite often and you're just like whoa like it just kind of smacks you in the face when you hear something like that I have to say talking about racist we all know I was the victim of a racist hate crime and someone threw a banana at me in the tube station said top of the morning to you and it was very clear I was like oh I see I see
I see. That felt to me like it was a racist hate crime. Anyway, when I first moved to the UK, I would meet people, English people, obviously, and they would do the Irish accent. And I found it insulting because they're doing this really over-exaggerated, stupid, oh, like this really twee... Irish accents and it's giving leprechaun.
And I was like, I don't think, it doesn't feel right to me that you're doing that because you're making me sound really stupid and really over the top.
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Chapter 7: What are the red flags in dating mentioned in the episode?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's intimidated. I'm taking dignity into 2026. So my advice would be... It's a big year for you.
Are you able to keep up with all the shit that you're putting on yourself? What? If you manage to pry yourself out of that office, I will be shocked. I think that's a step too far.
So tomorrow the tour starts back. And it's hectic. It's full on till May. By the way, Australia tickets still available. Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne. And there's also tickets left for the London matinee on February 15th and blah, blah, blah. But I was like, you know what? My New Year's resolution was to leave the house more.
However, I have one more day where I'm going to gift myself a full recline and a full relax for the whole day. I'm doing some press for New Zealand later on the Zooms and I'm not going to leave the house. And then tomorrow I'll reinvent myself and start my new life. Okay, fair enough.
Yeah, yeah.
One last, one last hurrah in the box.
I can't say, listen, I don't know what you think everyone else is doing, but like not many people leave the house that much when you don't have to. When we have an outdoor job, like yesterday was a real struggle now for me having to be out of the house for two different occasions, you know?
I don't know how you do Lorraine at that time in the morning. I'd be like, Lorraine, I'm going to come in in the evening, you can do a pre-record.
I was asleep a quarter to nine last night, Joanne. That's how I do Lorraine.
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