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Chapter 1: What happened during the Makerfield by-election televised debate?
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Chris, shall we explain the slightly jigsaw nature of this latest episode of Newscast? Well, help me out. Oh, yeah, because you don't actually know. No, and also, you are something of a jigsaw aficionado, aren't you? Oh, in the era when we all had less to do. Oh, no. No, it's hard to find the time. Can't you get like a 50-piece one or something? I've developed a far too small.
I still want a challenge. Anyway, the challenge in tonight's episode, which we're recording on Thursday evening, is that the first half we're recording now, and you will hear me and Chris talking about the Question Time by-election special that came from Makerfield. and we'll play some clips from that.
And then the second half will be what me and Chris recorded earlier on on Thursday, which is our regular look back at events of the week with Alex Osyth and Faisal Islam, which was broadcast on BBC One, ironically, after Question Time. But recorded before Question Time.
Chapter 2: What did Andy Burnham say about his ambitions for Labour leadership?
Yeah, but we'll play out in the right order now. I see what you mean about the jigsaw. Yes, exactly. That was a three-piece jigsaw. Right. Good luck with the 2,000-piece one. Thinking about it like a panto helped.
Do we play music now or what do we do?
Hello, it's Adam in the Newscast studio. And it is Chris at Westminster. And in case you didn't follow my convoluted explanation, we're recording this half of Newscast on Thursday evening, and it's just about 10.30. And this evening, Chris and I have been glued to our TV screens because Fiona Bruce was in Makerfield hosting a classic format of Question Time.
but in a non-classic way because the panel was made up of five candidates in the Makerfield by-election. There was Andy Burnham for Labour, Robert Kenyon for Reform UK, Michael Winstanley for the Conservatives, Jake Austin for the Liberal Democrats and Sarah Wakefield for the Green Party. And Chris, the first sort of 20 minutes of the programme was just all on one question about Labour.
Chapter 3: How did other candidates respond to Andy Burnham's comments?
How can how could they restore trust in politicians? Yes. And therefore ended up being dominated by two themes. Firstly, the most obvious theme, because you can see it from the International Space Station, which is why is this by election happening? And Andy Burnham's ambitions and the future of the Labour Party and who might be the next prime minister, etc., etc. ?
and the extent to which that is either a noble thing to do or causing a by-election unnecessarily. And there was a fair smattering of arguments in both directions there.
And then for his principal rival in this contest, which is Robert Kenyon and Reform UK, the whole slew of questions that have been, that we were talking about on the last edition of By-Election Cast, after my conversation with Mr Kenyon the other day, kind of social media posting history and, you know, what that says about him as a character.
And then towards the end of that section, Andy Burnham then confirmed something that basically everyone knew, but he'd never actually said before, which is that if he wins in Makerfield, he would join a contest to succeed Keir Starmer as prime minister.
I'm not somebody who gets ahead of myself. I can't do anything unless I'm lucky enough to get the support of people here. But if I get your support, I would seek to represent you at the highest possible level and give this constituency maximum power and influence.
I think Wes Streeting seems to have launched a leadership contest.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the murder of Henry Nowak on political discourse?
So if that is running, I would seek to join it. But I'd have to persuade members of the Parliament to lay the party to do the same.
So that's the only stance there.
So, yeah, Chris, there we go. Yeah. So, look, how should we tease that apart? I mean, look, you know, Fiona Bruce wasn't in Ashton in Makerfield because the dart in the Question Time office had just happened at random to hit Ashton rather than Devizes or Dundee or Carlisle or Ipswich. Look, clearly, obviously, Andy Burnham has ambitions.
But he's been pretty coy, hasn't he, in public about those in the last couple of weeks. I think firstly grounded in a genuine, I think, respect of putting one foot in front of another and taking one step at a time. In other words... Look, it is obvious what his ambitions are, but he's got to persuade people in Makerfield first.
And he doesn't want to either look presumptuous to folk in the constituency or necessarily in the wider Labour Party. But I think what was significant about what you just heard is he perhaps only biased me, Jim, given that, you know, all of what is obvious anyway. He did go a little bit further.
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Chapter 5: How did the candidates address the issue of trust in politicians?
One thing I would... Emphasize and certainly his team are emphasizing from that extract that you heard there is he talked about entering a contest, which is different from triggering a contest. So, yeah.
Lots of people have reflected in the last, not just the last month, the last six or seven months about the Labour leadership, which is that in the end, for a prime minister to change, somebody has to, either somebody has to stick their head above the parapet and trigger a formal... And then and then a contest begins or the prime minister has to say, I've had enough.
And then the act of his resignation itself would trigger a contest. And Andy Burnham's language there was quite carefully chosen around entering a leadership contest, were there to be one which is distinct from from triggering it.
which in theory gives Wes Streeting some leverage over Andy Burnham, because if Andy Burnham would be relying on Wes to trigger the contest, then Wes can say, well, OK, what do I get if I do that favour for you? Just theorising. Completely. All of that then becomes a sort of, yeah, all of that is perfectly reasonable theorising, I think. Yeah.
And then in terms of reaction to what Andy Burnham has been intending to do, Michael Winstanley, the Conservative Party candidate, said that this by-election had been foisted on people in Makerfield because of Andy Burnham's ambitions.
And Jake Austin for the Liberal Democrats said this was basically an election for a future prime minister via the back door and that Andy Burnham had been saying the quiet part out loud. Finally.
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Chapter 6: What were the audience's reactions to the candidates' performances?
Right. Somebody who was watching it was obviously a number 10 Downing Street, though, Chris, because there was during the programme being aired a statement released basically saying Starmer's going nowhere. Yeah. So they were definitely watching in Downing Street as the programme played out on the BBC News Channel and on the iPlayer.
because it went out then at nine o'clock and then it was going out on BBC One after the after the 10 o'clock news. And yeah, unsolicited, or at least I hadn't sought to solicit this response. Maybe others had.
We got something at a quarter to 10 that we've heard this before, but it sufficiently goaded the clip we just heard of Andy Burnham and sufficiently goaded number 10 to put out a quote in the name of a number 10 candidate. spokesman, talking about what they see as Keir Starmer's achievements, talking about not getting distracted by Westminster debates.
I mean, it seems like they were distracted by one tonight, but anyway, we won't get too drawn into that. They were very multitasking. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You can do more than one thing at once, can't you? And then they say, and this line will seem familiar, the Labour Party has a process for challenging a leader and has not been triggered.
The Prime Minister will not walk away from the mandate he was given just two years ago.
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Chapter 7: What are the major news stories impacting the political landscape this week?
And just to cap off that point I was making a moment or two ago about... some of the reflections I've heard in the last six, seven, eight, nine months about the Labour leadership is that the alternative to your hypothesis about, you know, where does that leave, where's streeting in a scenario where Andy Burnham wins the by-election? If nobody moves, nothing happens. Mm-hmm.
And I'm not saying that that is likely. Who knows? Let's see how the next couple of weeks play out. There's so many different ramifications. But there is a central truth there. If nobody moves, nothing happens. And for all of the heats last month in the immediate aftermath of the elections, and there was a lot of it, nobody moved in the end.
Now, West Street can make an argument that he could have done but chose not to. Others wondered if he had the numbers, et cetera, et cetera. But there was no formal triggering of a contest. And given what Andy Burnham has said, the specifics of what he said...
Chapter 8: How do the discussions in this episode reflect current UK political tensions?
Yeah, let's see how these next few weeks shake out. And because Team Stormer were watching this edition of Question Time so closely, they also will have heard a member of the Question Time audience give this quite withering assessment of Keir Stormer.
It's close between both of you in the polls and I want you to win. What you want Andy Burnham to do? I do.
Right. The sooner the better that Keir Starmer walks out of Downing Street, the better for me and everybody else. We want him to go.
Everybody wants him to go. We can't stand him, actually. But he's not for the people anyway. Just say what you really think. Well, yeah, because he's not for the people. He doesn't listen. That's his downfall.
Yes. So at least one member of the audience who is very, very angry and can't wait to get rid of Keir Starmer. So just on that, Adam, just one little observation, because as as she was making that observation, Robert Kenyon said, but he'll be gone anyway. And I think that's it's an interesting interjection.
And it gets to an element of the conversations that the candidates, particularly the principal to reform and Labour, are having with. voters. Because how, if you are a voter in the Makerfield constituency, how are you meant to deal with the conundrum, if you feel this is a conundrum, of how do I vote if I want to see the prime minister change?
Because it's almost counterintuitive to think I'm not happy with Labour and therefore I'll endorse Labour at the election, even though the pitch of the Labour candidate is vote for me because I want to change Labour. And Reform have just gone through a whole election cycle last month where they were saying, vote for us to get rid of Keir Starmer.
And so in response to a very bluntly put assessment, withering assessment of the actual prime minister right now from the audience member we just heard, who had also said just earlier in that sort of paragraph or whatever out loud that she was backing Andy Burnham, you had that...
chipping in for Mr Kenyon, trying to neutralise that point, to say that effectively you don't need to vote for him in order to get rid of the Prime Minister. Right, then on to Robert Kenyon, the reform candidate. And he was asked by a member of... Well, it was more of a comment by a member of the audience who said she'd rather have a career politician as the MP than a plumber who is a sexist.
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