Everything, everywhere, all at once — but not the movie. This is how cybersecurity experts describe a scenario where a foreign adversary shuts off critical infrastructure, like oil pipelines, water networks, ports, and electric grids, all over the country. The terrifying truth is that China has already hacked into our critical infrastructure. They’re “living off the land” and could conceivably attack whenever is most convenient. What’s worse? Our political leaders are defunding America’s cybersecurity efforts. In order to dig in deeper, Kara talks to Nicole Perlroth, Michael Schmidt, and Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, (Ret.) Nicole Perlroth spent a decade as the lead cybersecurity reporter at The New York Times, before going inside the tent and joining the advisory board of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency and the Council on Foreign Relations’ Cyber Task Force. She is a founding partner at Silverbuckshot Ventures and the host and producer of To Catch a Thief, a new podcast on China’s rise to cyber dominance. Michael Schmidt is a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter for The New York Times and the author of the best-selling book Donald Trump v. The United States. He’s also the executive producer and co-creator of the Netflix series Zero Day, a political thriller about a devastating cyberattack on the U.S. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman is the former director of European Affairs for the National Security Council. Vindman was a key witness during President Trump’s first impeachment and testified about Trump’s infamous phone call with President Zelensky of Ukraine. He is a senior fellow at the Johns Hopkins Foreign Policy Institute and the author of The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on Instagram, TikTok and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.