The Heartbreaking Atrocity of The Ukraine War (And Why You Should Care) - James Verini
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
From the start, Putin has maintained that Ukraine is not a real place. It is not a real country. There is no such thing as indigenous independent Ukrainian culture. There's no such thing as Ukrainian language apart from the Russian language. There's no such thing as Ukraine apart from Russia. When you convince yourself of that and when you convince your soldiers and your pilots of that proposition, well then of course they're capable of doing anything. Putin's idea was that Ukraine had been so softened and so fractured by three decades of active measures and the depredations of post-Soviet life that he would just topple Kyiv and the rest would fall into place. He could not have made a dumber decision.
This invasion cohered Ukrainians like nothing else could have. It's the most admirable nation that exists in the world right now. Fighting for the ideals and the practices and the ideas that we claim to hold so dear, they're not going to stop. They're not going to leave their land. I have my doubts about any form of a peace deal that would include Ukraine ceding captured territory, even if by some strange happenstance, Zelensky or another president agreed to that. The Ukrainians now would never stand for that. They would carry on a guerrilla war behind the lines in Donbas and the south of Kherson for as long as it took.
Welcome to Open Book. I am your host, Anthony Scaramucci. Joining me today is James Verini. He is an award-winning journalist and author, and he's written an incredible book, which is penetrating. It is a short book, but it is a real book, and it's called The Theater, Courage and Survival in the Defining Atrocity of of the Ukraine war. And so, you know, I have a lot of friends in the agency, a lot of friends at the Department of Defense. I will still call it that for as long as I live. And we know that the Russians are culturally set up to commit war crimes when they go to war. You've reported on some of the world's most dangerous conflict zones. So go into that first. Why are you so crazy? As my grandmother would have said, tutti pazzo.
Why are you so crazy, James Marini? Why are you going into these war zones? Then we'll get into the book.
Troppo pazzo. Thank you for that question. It's very flattering. I don't really see it as crazy. I see it as, well, first of all, it's enjoyable. But secondly, I see it as necessary. You know, these things happen and someone's got to go write about them. And I suppose perhaps my personality is particularly well suited to it. But when you actually get to these places, as you probably know from your friends in the military and in journalism, They're not nearly so crazy as they seem on the news, even in Ukraine, even in Iraq and everywhere else I've worked. It's chaotic, but it's not nuts. You can figure out how to operate safely, how to make intelligent choices. It's like any other somewhat perilous job.
You figure out how to do it intelligently. And for the most part, people stay safe.
For the most part. But let's be honest with each other, you know, because I have been to Afghanistan. I have been to Iraq. When I was in Afghanistan in October 2015, they wouldn't let civilians like me even drive in a car. We had to go by helicopter everywhere. They were so afraid of the IEDs and potential. You see, you're shaking your head because you know this. Mm-hmm. So what is it about a journalist that can get away with traveling around and not get harmed?
Well, it totally depends where you work, but I take the point of your question. I don't really know the answer, but I will tell you this. Working in Ukraine was the most frightening from that perspective. It was more frightening than Iraq. It was more frightening than... Gaza was more frightening than Central African Republic. And the reason was the Russian artillery. In particular, the Grodd systems are what are known as aerial weapons. And they fire indiscriminately, including on civilian centers. And as you know, Grodd systems fire off a few to a few dozen missiles in the course of seconds.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–10:39
2
Why does James Verini cover dangerous conflict zones and how does he stay safe?
10:39–17:46
3
What made reporting in Ukraine uniquely frightening compared with Iraq or Gaza?
17:46–24:43
4
How did the Mariupol theater bombing unfold and why was it so consequential?
24:43–29:53
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci
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