America 250: Is It Time To Stop Idolizing the Founders?
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Why is the 250th anniversary of the Declaration prompting a debate on idolizing the Founders?
This is open to debate. I'm John Don van. Hi, everybody. Go back two and a half centuries, and the men who drove the American Revolution, men like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and John Adams and all the rest, the men we call the founding fathers, sometimes just the founders, they never heard the term culture war. But now, just as we're celebrating the nation's 250th birthday, these men stand most prominently at the heart of a new culture war battle. They have been named in a report just released by the Trump administration that is accusing the National Museum of American History of being too woke. The administration is arguing that the museum, which is part of the Smithsonian Institution, does not do enough to honor the founders and by omission is actually dishonoring them.
The museum leadership disputes that. Other critics say the report itself is methodologically flawed and biased. The White House pushes back. No, it's not. So yes, we're in the middle of a classic culture war, face off. But while the Smithsonian waits to see if the White House is going to take some action against the museum, we are not going to debate what's happening there in this episode. Here's what we're asking in this debate, and we're bringing in two debaters to take opposite sides. Is it time to stop idolizing the founders? So let's meet our debaters. Answering yes to that question, it's time to stop idolizing. I want to welcome Osito Noanevo, who is a contributing editor at The New Republic, a columnist at The Guardian, author of The Right of the People, Democracy, and the Case for a New American Founding.
Osito, welcome to the program. It's great to have you on open to debate. Thank you so much. Could you tell us in one sentence? And I just want it to be one sentence so we don't launch the debate. Because I'm sure it's going to be germane to your arguments. Your book calls for a new American founding. In that one sentence, what do you mean by that?
So what I mean by that is that taking after, among others, the historian uh Eric Foner, who argues that the thirteenth and fourteenth and fifteenth amendments of the constitution after Reconstruction amounted to a second founding, I do believe we have had in this country's history moments where we fundamentally rework our institutions. And I'm arguing in the book that given the political and economic challenges we face, we're due for another one.
Thank you very much for that. And I'm sure we're going to hear more about your point of view on that as we have the discussion. But that discussion also includes Helena Rosenblatt, a historian, a professor of history, French, and political science at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, author of The Lost History of Liberalism from Ancient Rome to the Twenty First Century. Helena, welcome to the program. It's great to have you.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Great to have you. And you were born in Sweden. Now you're an American. I'm just interested having gr come from Sweden, grown up in Sweden, when did the founding fathers of the United States kind of begin to dazzle you?
My father was a diplomat, he was uh stationed in Beirut, Lebanon, and there I went to the American Community School. And as a young girl, I learned about the founding fathers. I probably heard little stories um about George Washington. chopping down the the cherry tree and not lying about it. And Benjamin Franklin, we had these little books. I know those were mythologized, but they really kindled my love for for history and my love for this country and made me very curious about the founding fathers.
All right. Excellent background to know as we go into this uh conversation and this debate. And let's start the debate with our opening statements. We want each of you to take four minutes or up to four minutes to explain why you're taking the position you are. Ocito, you're up first. You're arguing yes, it's time to stop idolizing the founding fathers. Please tell us why.
Sure thing. So as I think is generally good practice in debates like this, I should talk a little bit about how I'm interpreting the resolution.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
Why is the 250th anniversary of the Declaration prompting a debate on idolizing the Founders?
0:00–9:28
2
How does Osita Nwanevu argue that America needs a new founding and less reverence for the Founders?
9:28–21:33
3
What historical evidence does Helena Rosenblatt use to defend continued respect for the Founders?
21:33–31:08
4
Why do the debaters believe the Constitution’s amendment process is too difficult for modern challenges?
31:08–49:25
5
How do the guest questions from Manisha Sinha, Michael McConnell, and John Malcolm shift the conversation?
49:25–50:17