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Chapter 1: Who was Grant Wahl and what was his impact on soccer journalism?
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. If the world's soccer fans can't stand Seb Blatter, then why is he running again? So I decided if three FIFA presidents have been sports journalists, then I can run for FIFA president too. Right after this ad. Yo. Hey. Bring it in.
What's up?
The famous PTFL sweater.
Chapter 2: What motivated Grant Wahl to run for FIFA president?
Mmm. You good? Yeah, man. How are you doing? Yeah, great. I was going to say, your schedule is... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All over the place right now. Yeah. Wait, so what's your schedule from here? So we're... So at CBS, we're just doing stuff all day. Right. I went to... As a fan, I bought a ticket and got... I went to Scotland, Haiti, which is awesome.
Yeah, watching from home, that looked like... Amazing. I was standing in line for a beer, and there was all these people who just, like, randomly started hugging for no reason. Because if Haiti hadn't made it since 1974 and they're all the other things they're in and Scotland hadn't made it since 98 and they're just there for a giant party and they're like, oh my God, we're here. We're doing it.
One of the things, Chris Whittingham, thank you for being here, by the way. Yeah, no problem. One of the things about the World Cup that always hits me once it gets going is like as much as I think the thing we were just caring about the NBA finals or any other sporting event is the thing. The World Cup is one of a kind. Yeah, you feel it in this city as well.
Even on the subway over, they have the wrapped ones and you see the jerseys. And it is such an incredible cultural exchange on top of it being the world's biggest sporting event by a mile. I was blown away that the combined TV rating number in English and Spanish was bigger than the first four NBA Finals game for the U.S. game on Friday night.
I was astounded by that because it just goes to show, number one, people love throwing themselves in the flag, but it is this thing that is now being reintroduced to America for the first time in 32 years that it just transcends in a way that very few other things do. Actually, I would legitimately say nothing does. It wasn't always that way, but it is now.
I was doing my own historical review of the 94 World Cup. In the 80s, there was a house debate on Capitol Hill, about whether the U.S. should support bidding for the 94 World Cup. And Jack Kemp, former Republican from New York, NFL quarterback, said, quote, football, as in the NFL, football is democratic capitalism, whereas soccer is a European socialist sport.
And then USA Today, that same year, a writer says that the case being made by soccer's fanboys is, quote, what the Russians told us about communism. That it is this secret PSYOP that is here to plant in the minds of Americans to be anti-American. It's hilarious. But it was accused of being this whole like foreign operation.
And the person I think about in terms of the Americans who've been trying to explain like, hey, this is a real story. The math on this is not fake. This is actually the most popular thing on the planet is the guy that both of us used to work with. Yeah. Who I think about all of the time, but especially... during this time of year, during this World Cup, Grant Wall.
Mm-hmm.
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Chapter 3: What were the major controversies surrounding the 2022 World Cup in Qatar?
And I should say that when I was a fact checker at Sports Illustrated and Grant Wall was a senior writer, the legend of him, first of all, he was the number one college basketball writer in America at Sports Illustrated. And then he was also the LeBron cover guy. Yeah. Somebody who took pride in like knowing what the next big thing was going to be.
When you think of that LeBron Sports Illustrated cover when he's in high school and it's, you know, it's the thing that stamps, hey, you should pay attention to this. That's Grant as well. Yeah.
And so one person I talked to, of course I had to, is Celine Gounder, Dr. Celine Gounder, a noted epidemiologist and also somebody who was, in this context, very important to understand because she married Grant Wall. He had to fight.
He really did have to fight to get soccer in the pages of the magazine. I'm trying to remember, was it the French World Cup in 98? I want to say that it was not on the cover, that it was Mike Ditka with a cigar that ended up making the cover that week. And he was just like, I would say he'd be tearing his hair out over it, except he didn't have any hair.
But he just could not understand how we did not see the importance of that win anywhere.
And for people who don't remember, so 98, the World Cup was in Paris. It was won by France, Zinedine Zidane. You know, this is the header. Not the headbutt, not the header. A different iconic moment involving his skull, his also bald skull. But this is what SI put on the cover instead. That's amazing. There it is.
New Orleans coach Mike Ditka wants all of us to forsake vice and become real saints. Holy smoke. And then on the top left corner, a very small print, Sucker Blue, France stuns Brazil. As Mike Ditka is holding a cigar. It's July and we put the NFL on the cover in 98. Yeah, of course. It is still stunning.
I don't think people quite understand the clawing for relevance that really isn't that long ago. That was 28 years ago. I remember when I was working in local radio. Miami is always the biggest market for the World Cup. Always. Because of the multiculturalism. And the text machine that we used to have that would like get texts from the audience was always, stop this. Stop talking about this.
Tell me about Dolphins minicamp, please. And this was not that long ago. And so you can imagine just like the timeline at Sports Illustrated, as again, this stand-in for mainstream sports media, we go now to 99. And Grant Wall, and you can imagine the triumph here. In 1999, the US Women's National Team, of course, wins the World Cup, and Grant finally gets his cover of Sports Illustrated.
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Chapter 4: How did Grant Wahl cover human rights issues in Qatar?
The only place you found soccer was literally if Grant wrote about it.
He was covering soccer way before it was cool. He wasn't like, ooh, women's soccer, ooh, 99, now they're famous. Now let me show up and let me talk to these girls. And he was there from the beginning when nobody really cared.
When soccer was number five out of five out of the popular sports in the United States. I mean, let's just be very blunt about this. Having someone like Grant... saying, this is important. I mean, this meant so much to these players.
He means a lot to me and to our team and the rise of women's soccer in this country.
He's right there with the rest of us who actually were on the pitch as a representation of the rise off the pit as well. And yet at the same time, what I loved, what I marvel at still in retrospect today is that Grant was also An investigator. Yes. He was somebody who was, because of his love for something, trying to take it seriously, which means reporting on it.
You have to, again, tell people that this is great, that the world loves this, and that you should care about this thing while also spotlighting its flaws. These are sort of generally seen as two things that would be at odds.
But what Grant did after being fired by Sports Illustrated during COVID in 2020, unceremoniously, I might add, was start an independent podcast and newsletter, which I personally found inspiring.
Not least because what it did was blend on-site coverage at the World Cup, for instance, with actual reporting about the host country, as with his scrutiny of the human rights scandals, plural, in Qatar in 2022. which happens to bring me now to the origin story of Grant's friendship with our guest today, CBS Sports host and soccer commentator, Chris Whittingham.
I listen to his podcast every week. And so I reached out to him and I was like, hey, you know, I'm available. It's COVID. And I have all the time in the world to edit podcasts. Do you need help with that? He's like, no, I'm going to try it on my own. And like three days later, he's like, I need your help with this. And so it began as sort of a non-speaking role.
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Chapter 5: What led to Grant Wahl's sudden collapse during the World Cup?
They were wondering aloud if foul play had been involved. We do begin with that breaking news tonight, a mysterious death overseas. American soccer journalist Grant Wall has died while covering the World Cup in Qatar.
FIFA released a statement with reaction from President Gianni Infantino. He said, It is with disbelief and immense sadness that I've been made aware of the passing of renowned sports journalist Grant Wall whilst reporting on a quarterfinal match. Only some days ago, Grant was recognized by FIFA and AIPS for his contribution to reporting on eight consecutive World Cups.
The White House press secretary calling Wall an inspiration to many. tennis legend Billie Jean King, U.S. men's soccer player Tyler Adams, and actor Brendan Hunt, also among the latest paying respects.
I'm very fond of Grant, you know, me being a teenager and him covering that. It was a pretty cool thing. I've always kind of watched from a distance, you know, even when I, you know, moved up in the ranks, you know, he kind of Went to a different sport and things of that nature over the years.
Anytime his name will come up, I'll always think back to me as a teenager and having Grant in our building down at St. V. So it's a tragic loss. It's unfortunate to lose someone as great as he was.
I was in shock. I remember just being paralyzed for probably about 12 hours. And then you sort of spring into trying to help Celine. I talked to Celine with any information I might have, his brother Eric as well. But yeah, I just remember being shell shocked. And also, and this was the thing that I've sort of held on to for a long time is just wanting to talk about that game with him. Yeah.
The instinct of if there is one person that I wish we could hear from. Yes. During this World Cup in the United States. It's Grant. There's so many things that have happened since where me and several of his other mutual friends have gone, wanted to hear what Grant had to say about this. And obviously this World Cup is the biggest one by a mile.
The end of June and July can be a really rough period for sports fans with football still a few months away and basketball and hockey ended. But this year we're pretty lucky because not only is there a World Cup, there is a World Cup in our backyard. And so make sure to check out the Athletic Podcast Network to stay up to date on all things related to the World Cup.
You can wake up with the Totally Football show from LA, then dive deep into the biggest talking point of the day with the Athletic FC podcast. And you can watch the TIFO podcast fool around on their daily live streams in the afternoon. All shows are free to watch or listen on your favorite podcast platform. When I say that Grant Wall was the guy who I consider the number one authority on soccer,
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Chapter 6: What were the conspiracy theories surrounding Grant Wahl's death?
Hi, I'm Grant Wall. I'm running for FIFA president. Good luck. Thank you. If the world's soccer fans can't stand Sepp Blatter, then why is he running again? So I decided if three FIFA presidents have been sports journalists, then I can run for FIFA president too. I'm convinced that if the world's soccer fans got to vote, I would beat Sepp Blatter in a landslide.
I just need one country's federation to heed the popular will and nominate me by the April 1st deadline.
Vote Grant Wall for FIFA president. The people's choice.
My name is Grant Wall, and you better believe I approved this message. If you want to know why people were theorizing that Grant Wall's death may have come at the hands of enemies of his approach to journalism, this part of Grant's career is one reason why. Because Grant would not only not shut up, His actual platform was more than just better referees and instant replay.
It was about transparency and how if Grant Wall were to actually be elected by FIFA's voters, its member countries, he would expose corruption. I'll clean up FIFA the only way possible by releasing all of its internal documents to the public. We're going to go WikiLeaks on FIFA. The one thing that I think a lot of people don't understand about FIFA is that it is a one vote per country system.
If you've won five World Cups like Brazil or you basically don't have a football team like American Samoa, you have the same voting rights. And so you're really just trying to go to one of these small territories. Can you buck against the trend? And... nominate me for president.
But it actually sort of works out as the opposite, where those small voting associations, they get the same payout from FIFA that everyone else does. So they are massively less incentivized as having no real power in the world of football to just go with the flow and let's keep this cash train moving. Yes.
One of the things you learn through Grant's accounting of his campaign is the voters that might seem from afar are ostensibly persuadable, are among the least. Because, yes, whether you're the U.S. or Dominica, or somewhere in between, as he puts it, Sweden, Chile, Ireland, Israel, none of them had the guts to do it. Which, of course, stuck out at that point to his wife.
He reached out to, there's over 200 different national federations. So at the time, the rules were you just needed one to nominate you. And he actually got pretty close with some, but in the end could not get a single one. And, you know, that was essentially the expose, that you could not get even one, that this was how closed the process was.
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Chapter 7: What was the outcome of the investigation into Grant Wahl's death?
I mean, that very clearly indicates we can't let this sort of idea, because it garnered worldwide press. There were people around the world who wanted to talk to Graham, like, yeah, this is great. Can you do this, please?
And they would have been scared that maybe one association does nominate and maybe, you know, he's able to convince, somehow appeal to the hearts and minds of the greater voting public within FIFA and go on to win the thing and end this machine that they have rolling at the time. And instead, what FIFA decides to do is something that he also explained on the Long Forum podcast in 2016.
My FIFA presidential campaign didn't exactly work out in 2011. Yeah, we didn't talk about that.
You ran for president of FIFA. That again was sort of prescient. That was before all of these takedown scandals.
Yeah, and it was fun. I caused them to change their rules where to run for FIFA president now you literally have to be an insider and have like two of the previous five years in football administration, soccer administration.
Yeah.
Which is actually a problem because if you had an outsider like a Kofi Annan, who I think would be great to take over a new FIFA, according to their rules right now, he cannot run. I had a good experience doing it in 2011. It was fun. It got people to thinking, I think, why does no one ever run against this Sepp Blatter guy?
and really put out some of the honestly common sense issues that needed to be considered about making FIFA cleaner, or trying to, or getting it at a point where it wasn't this kind of joke of an organization. I mean, the aftermath of Grant's unsuccessful campaign brings us to this sort of buffet of self-dealing and, in the eyes of the Justice Department, criminal activity. Now at 11, FIFA raid.
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Chapter 8: How is Grant Wahl remembered by his peers and family?
They corrupted the business of worldwide soccer to serve their interests and to enrich themselves. Leaders of soccer's global governing body accused of tarnishing the sport by taking $150 million in bribes and payoffs.
Seven high-ranking officials of FIFA, soccer's international governing body, were arrested at a five-star hotel in Switzerland. They're among 14 people indicted by U.S. prosecutors.
Yeah, I mean, at that time, Loretta Lynch was in charge of the Justice Department. And I remember these raids that go on in Switzerland where these people are basically chucked out of their beds in the middle of the night and say, you know, you're under arrest under U.S. jurisdiction.
It included the takedown of Chuck Blazer, who admitted to conspiring with other members of the FIFA executive committee to accept bribes. for the hosting rights for the 2010 World Cup, which went to South Africa, including a failed bid for Morocco to host. They will host in 2030.
But there are all of these people that were all of a sudden under the purview of the American government, never mind the public that thought what's going on within this organization. Right. It gets to the point where in June 2015, Sepp Blatter is forced to resign as FIFA president.
FIFA chief Sepp Blatter has said he's to step down just four days after being re-elected to a fifth term at the helm of football's world governing body which is embroiled in a corruption scandal.
The 79-year-old made the announcement during a hastily convened press conference in Zurich, saying that although he decided to stand again because he was convinced it was the best option for football, he added that his mandate does not seem to be supported by everyone in the world.
We've been watching prequels to The Rise of Johnny Infantino. That's the guy who replaces Blatter, the job that I think Grant Wall should have had. Johnny Infantino, one of his aspects of the campaign was, I need to sit down with Grant Wall. And so this is February 25, 2016. This is the day before Infantino gets elected president, and they meet.
What are the most important parts of your plan as FIFA president?
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