Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Alex Wagner. As most of the country now knows, last week an ICE officer shot and killed Renee Nicole Good, prize-winning poet, hobby guitarist, wife, and mother of three. Fallout has been massive. People across the country are stunned by what happened in Minneapolis and what continues to unfold in the state.
They have been perhaps equally shocked by the reaction from the White House. DHS Secretary Kristi Noem declared that Goode was a domestic terrorist. Vice President J.D. Vance said ICE agents should have absolute immunity. And the Justice Department is now pushing to investigate Goode's widow, Rebecca Goode, instead of the ICE officer who killed Renee Nicole Goode.
A decision that's resulted in the resignation of six career prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney's Office in the state, including the acting U.S. attorney for Minnesota himself, Joseph Thompson, who, by the way, was a Trump appointee. The problem with the administration's attempt to offer its own politically convenient reality here is that Rene Good's killing was caught on video.
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Chapter 2: What happened to Renee Nicole Good and why is it significant?
Right. Allow federal law enforcement to do their job, but also enforce state law in the process. And there's just no indication that they are capable of doing so either.
I guess one of the things you mentioned that. you know, it's a law and therefore may be subject to judicial oversight, who would have standing to sort of sue to stop the president from invoking the Insurrection Act? Would the state of Minnesota?
So I think a bunch of different entities. One would be the state of Minnesota, because we have already seen the injuries to the state from the mass deployment and surge of ICE officers. But Businesses in Minnesota have shut down. Hospitals are limited. State public services are feeling the strain.
It is more difficult for the state to enforce state law, given the violations that the federal officers themselves are engaged in. It's clear that this surge and deployment injures the state. So the state is one possible entity.
It is also possible that individual citizens or religious organizations or other groups that are being harmed by the targeting of different communities and the obstruction of public services in the state could also sue. So those are two different categories.
We sit here, we're recording on Friday, the 16th of January, and Minneapolis and St. Paul Public Schools are offering virtual learning, I think until mid-February, because there's so many children and parents who are terrified of going to school.
And one would assume that they would have standing to say, hey, this, you know, whatever, ramping this up, if you do invoke the Insurrection Act, is causing great harm to our children's education. Exactly. And nobody hates a school closure more than the right wing. So that would be an interesting moral conundrum for them.
I mean, the last time I believe an American president invoked the Insurrection Act was George H.W. Bush during the L.A. riots, right? Yes. How did that happen?
It was actually at the request of state officials. So he had their consent. So this is an instance where the state is basically saying, we don't have this. Can you help us out? And that is consistent with the tradition that the Insurrection Act reflects, which is not using the federal military to overpower state law enforcement when they can handle it.
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Chapter 3: What role does public protest play in addressing ICE's actions?
It's also trying to strengthen the resolve and resilience of the community itself. Yeah. You mentioned they're not trained. And that, I think, is like something that is quite clearly, it's obvious when you look at these videos. ProPublica has some essential, really urgent reporting this week about ICE agents using banned chokeholds on American citizens.
And I would assume that, you know, because that is explicitly banned in the DHS policy guidebook or whatever it's officially called, does that then make it easier for those families and those victims to take their case against ICE to court? I know we're going to get into the difficulty of civil suits with federal agents in a second, but just using explicitly banned policies
Maneuver seems like it opens up a portal that maybe doesn't always exist.
Yes, that's certainly going to be helpful, persuasive evidence in the event you can actually get a court to hear the merits of your claim. That is also potentially helpful in defeating a defense of qualified immunity, which, you know, are oftentimes very effective.
strong and whittle out a bunch of meritorious suits, but showing that the officers are in violation of a policy that they are supposed to follow can be helpful in overcoming that defense. So yes, it's helpful. It's just not the full solution to all of the obstacles to that kind of litigation.
Yeah, I mean, we're going to get to J.D. Vance's assertion that ICE has absolute immunity. But I do, you know, like I do wonder when you see these people being abducted and detained and arrested and violently thrown to the ground in establishments like the one I'm talking about, the chokehold video that is part of the ProPublica reporting happens in a restaurant supply store.
A lot of this stuff happens right around or actually inside businesses. And I wonder from a legal standpoint, whether business owners have more agency in preventing ICE from acting so aggressively or maybe stopping the raid entirely. I mean, how would that how does what what can happen in that space? Sure.
So, you know, a business owner can restrict entry onto their premises. So some businesses post signs, you know, ICE officers aren't allowed in with an administrative warrant rather than a judicial warrant. You know, we have also seen ICE just frankly overpower, you know, individuals and barge in, you know, without warrants and whatnot.
But that's not to say, you know, business owners can't at least, you know, say this is the policy, you know, we're not allowing you in without some sort of judicial warrant.
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Chapter 4: What legal avenues exist to hold ICE accountable?
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Chapter 5: How is the Insurrection Act relevant to the current situation?
There were 32 deaths in ICE custody. There have been several just this year alone, and we're on the 16th day of January. What checks are supposed to be in place as far as detention? And I would assume this is all subject to congressional oversight.
Right.
Yes.
So congressional oversight is supposed to be one check. That's why we've seen representatives show up to ICE detention facilities and demand to inspect them. That's also why this administration is pushing back on that, because they don't actually want any oversight. They don't want it to come out you know, what is happening in these detention facilities and detention centers.
But congressional oversight, congressional hearings, you know, if Congress sees something going on, they can yank back ISIS funding and say, look, okay, we are not going to give you this money unless you offer, you know, the following protections, you know, for people who you are arresting, detaining and stopping.
So congressional oversight and Congress actually exercising oversight powers, whether that is limiting funding, conducting hearings and whatnot, those are all possibilities.
But if you're in Congress, can you not go to an ICE detention center and demand to get let in? So that is what the law says.
That is part of an appropriations rider. And yet, yet the administration has refused entry and indeed is prosecuting one of the Democratic representatives, LaMonica McIver, who showed up to an ICE facility and attempted to engage in some oversight. She was initially refused entry. There was a skirmish involving Newark Mayor Roz Baraka. She was subsequently let in.
And then afterwards, they are charging her with assaulting an ICE agent.
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