30/05/2026

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Political Thinking with Nick Robinson 36 min 2 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 1 month ago

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What is the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s role and how is it described by Marianne Stevenson?

Nick Robinson 0:00

Hello and welcome to political thinking. We're all in favour of equality, right? Well wrong, actually. The principle of equality is what many people say they suppose. But what the idea means in practice is increasingly contentious. My guest on political thinking this week is the woman who has the extremely sensitive job of enforcing the law on equality. She is Marianne Stevenson, the new chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. She's just published advice on one of the most divisive of issues: how to ensure equality for trans people without. trampling on the hard for rights of women. It's just one of the many difficult debates in which she's expected to intervene. In a society in which, for example, some want to ban what they call Islamophobia, but others insist on the freedom to criticize, not just Islam but any religion.

Nick Robinson 0:51

Some argue women are still not treated equally to men, others insist equality has gone too far, not to mention the rights of migrants and refugees and as against those born here. That is just part of her very packed agenda.

Nick Robinson 1:13

Mary Ann Stevenson, welcome to political thinking. Thank you. Let's talk about what your job is. Yes. Do you see yourself as a sort of police officer policing equality laws? Or are you a change maker? Are you an advocate, someone pushing for, driving for equality and diversity?

Marianne Stevenson 1:30

I think one of the important things about the EHRC is that it does have more than one mandate. So we are a regulator and it is our duty and responsibility to make sure people understand the law and the law is upheld and and properly followed. And the best way to do that is often not through policing, it's often through providing guidance or working with organisations on a voluntary basis to help them improve their practice. But we are also a champion. You know our role is to promote as well as uphold equality and human rights. And so that means Making the case, explaining to people why it's important and not assuming that we live in a little bubble where everyone agrees with us, but actually going out there and and showing how this makes a real difference to people's lives.

Nick Robinson 2:17

Trevor Phillips, who used to do your job, Chair of the Quality and Human Rights Commission, says it's the fourth hardest job in public life. He

Marianne Stevenson 2:24

said that to me too.

Nick Robinson 2:25

Yeah?

Marianne Stevenson 2:25

Yes. After? Uh was it Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary? I he

Nick Robinson 2:32

he in fact he had Home Secretary and the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. So your dye is even harder than the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he thinks.

Marianne Stevenson 2:39

I I mean, I don't know if that's true. I think, you know These jobs. can be difficult and you know, there are difficult and complex situations which are not straightforward. And we are in a world increasingly which likes to reduce those issues to straightforward yes, no answers. You're with us or against us, you're a goody or a baddie. And I don't think that's the case. And so that does make it hard.

Nick Robinson 3:03

Because it seems to me that sometimes people want to see you If their change makers is being on the barricades with them. Hold on, you're the Equalities woman. Come on, fight with us. Now the problem is y you're then expected to fight for two sides at the same time who may be in conflict.

How does the Commission balance enforcing equality laws with providing guidance and advocacy?

Marianne Stevenson 3:18

I think that is one of the issues. You know, the the role of the Equality and Human Rights Commission is to uphold and protect everyone's rights and make sure that everyone is treated, you know, without discrimination, harassment or victimization. And that's really about making sure that we can all live with dignity and respect, right? And that does mean that there are tensions because what one group wants will sometimes conflict with what another group wants. So if you are permanently permanently on the barricades and it's very difficult to do that more kind of complex stepping back role and saying, How do we balance these tensions? How do we find a way through these difficult issues?

Nick Robinson 3:53

What's changed, do you think? You've had what thirty odd years working inequality and diversity, and yet it seems to me only quite recently has it become as controversial as it has.