For years, scientists thought nothing could live above 73℃/163℉. At that temperature, everything boiled to death. But scientists Tom Brock and Hudson Freeze weren’t convinced. What began as their simple quest to trawl for life in some of the hottest natural springs on Earth would, decades later, change the trajectory of biological science forever, saving millions of lives—possibly even yours.This seismic, totally unpredictable discovery, was funded by the U.S. government. This week, as the Trump administration slashes scientific research budgets en masse, we tell one story, a parable about the unforeseeable miracles that basic research can yield. After that, a familiar voice raises some essential questions: what are we risking with these cuts? And can we recover?Special thanks to Joanne Padrón Carney, Erin Heath, Valeria Sabate, Gwendolyn Bogard, Meredith Asbury and Megan Cantwell at AAAS. Thank you as well to Gregor Čavlović and Derek Muller and the rest of the Veritasium team.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Latif Nasserwith help from - Maria Paz GutiérrezProduced by - Sarah Qari and Maria Paz GutiérrezOriginal music and sound design and mixing from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Emily Kreigerand Edited by - Alex Neason with help from Sarah QariEPISODE CITATIONS:Videos - Latif also helped make a version of this story with the YouTube channel Veritasium. Articles - Hudson Freeze NYT OPED: Undercutting the Progress of American ScienceBooks -Thomas Brock, A Scientist in Yellowstone National ParkPaul Rabinow’s Making PCR: A Story of BiotechnologyPodcasts Episodes:If you haven’t heard, listen to our first episode about the Golden Goose awards. Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected] support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Chapter 1: Who are the key scientists behind discovering life in extreme heat?
Hi, how you doing? How are you?
Is a scientist maimed.
Long time no talk.
Hudson Freeze. Dr. Freeze. You know, there have been a lot of comments on that. What's Freeze doing working on hot stuff, right?
Anyway. So the story that I brought Hud here to tell actually happened at the beginning of his career 60 years ago or something. But I've been thinking about this story a lot in the last couple months. Because, I don't know, every time, you know, like just a new headline comes out, which is like funding cuts to the National Science Foundation or National Institutes of Health or NASA.
Yeah. Just the sort of gutting, the avalanche of cuts to publicly funded science and basic research that we are witnessing right now.
Yeah. I guess maybe for now it's enough to say that Hudson Freeze's story, it kind of feels to me like a parable for the moment we are in right now. Okay, so let's just start way at the beginning. How did you get involved in any of this?
Well, let's see. I was born in a small railroad town in Indiana. And as a junior in high school, I spent some time at Indiana University. It's thrilling, you know, for somebody who hasn't seen more than a two-story building before. This was a big deal. And I met faculty people there.
Hud says he actually did a science project while he was there.
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Chapter 2: What was the scientific consensus about life above 73℃ before this discovery?
Multiplying COVID RNA so it was detectable.
Okay, this is, it's almost eerie that, like, these hot worms led us to COVID tests.
Yeah, and it's hard to know how many more people would have died without them.
Totally.
Now, obviously, the development of PCR was not just Carey. It was this huge team effort. But in 1993... Dr. Carey Mullis, I now ask you to receive the Nobel Prize from the hands of His Majesty the King. Carey Mullis wins the Nobel Prize.
And the critical component is the TAC polymerase.
And, you know, I did ask Hudson Freeze, like, are you, like, bitter that you didn't win the Nobel Prize?
But that isn't why you do the science, right?
Right.
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