Religious people aren't all good - The John List story

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Ray William Johnson: True Story Podcast 8 min 1 speaker 7 chapters transcribed

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Who is John List and what was his life like?

Narrator 0:00

Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they're a good person or even a sane person. Here's an example. So this guy, his name is List and List has a lot going for him. He has a good marriage. He has three kids. He lives in this huge 19 room mansion. I mean, look at that place. Plus, he's got a sweet job as vice president for a bank. So bro is doing well.

What event triggered John List's drastic actions?

Narrator 0:23

But most importantly, he's very religious. Like he and his family go to church every week. So you know he's a good person. But one day, everything changes because boom, List suddenly gets laid off from his vice president job at the bank. And List, he doesn't know what to do. He can't tell anyone that he lost his good paying job. That would be humiliating. So he decides to not tell anyone. He doesn't tell his family, he doesn't tell his friends. Instead, he just keeps going. He wakes up every day, he gets dressed like he always does, and he tells his family that he's going to work. But instead, he drives to the train station and he just sits in his car and reads the newspaper until it's time to head home.

How did John List cope with losing his job?

Narrator 1:07

So that his family thinks he's going to work and they don't ask him any questions. And Lis does this for a few months. He just fakes going to work. I guess he's hoping that during this period, he'll find another gig to keep him afloat. I don't know. It doesn't seem like a very good plan. Also, because he's not working, he obviously has no income coming in and his bills start stacking up, particularly his mortgage for that 19-room mansion he and his family are living in. So after months of not working, he owes $11,000 on his mortgage. And this was 1971. So today's dollars, he owes about 87 grand. That's a lot of money. So naturally, List starts freaking out. Like, what's he going to do? Are he and his family going to go bankrupt? Is he going to have to go on welfare? And remember, he's still very religious. So List starts worrying that he's gonna lose everything and that his family is gonna get so poor that they're gonna turn their backs on his religion and then his wife nor any of his kids will get into heaven.

What was John List's plan to protect his family's faith?

Narrator 2:08

And so this is a big deal for List, like he can't have his family not getting into heaven. So he comes up with this insane plan to make sure his fam doesn't get so poor that they turn their back on his religion. Here's the plan. First, he tells everyone they're going on a big family trip, like a vacation, and he stops all the milk deliveries and newspaper deliveries to their home. Then, one afternoon, List is at home, and he gets a couple of pew-pews that he owns out of the garage, and he goes back in the house and up to his wife, and he points one of them at her, and blam, he unalives her. Then he goes upstairs where his mom is living, because I guess his mom lives in the mansion with him too, and blam, he unalives her as well.

What actions did John List take against his family?

Narrator 2:51

Then he goes downstairs to the kitchen and he waits for his kids to come home from school. Once they get home, he takes the pew-pews and blam, blam, he unalives them too. Then he sits down and he writes a five-page handwritten letter to his pastor. And in the letter, he explains in detail that he had to unalive his whole family in order to save their souls and make sure they get into heaven. Also, in this letter he acknowledges that yeah, he lost his job and he could go on welfare, but then he says he'd have to move out of that 19 room mansion that he loves so much and live somewhere that he refers to as undesirable. So this is not just about saving his family's souls, it's also that he doesn't want to live in a smaller house.

What rationale did John List provide for his actions?

Narrator 3:38

Anyway, then Lis goes to every family photo in the house and he rips his face out from them so that police won't be able to identify him from his photos. Then he leaves all the lights on in the mansion to make it look like people are still living there. And he packs up some of his stuff and he flees. And he travels by train from New Jersey over to Michigan and then all the way down to Colorado, and he starts living there. And weeks go by, and back in New Jersey, no one thinks much about List's family being gone. I mean, they were supposed to go on a family trip, so they would be gone. But then about a month goes by and in the house, light bulbs start burning out and turning off one by one.