SaaS Interviews with CEOs, Startups, Founders
Bootstrapped Founder Buys $1.4m Dream Home Funded by his Marketing SaaS Tool
01 Aug 2021
Chapter 1: What is the background of Aurelian Amacker and his journey in digital marketing?
We use our own tool to power our insider business, and today we do over $400,000 in revenue per month.
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Hey folks, my guest today is Aurelien Amaker. He's building a tool called System.io. It's a ClickFunnels alternative. Aurelien, you ready to take us to the top? Sure, let's go. All right. Well, look, I'm glad you're on. I'm looking forward to this. ClickFunnels is obviously in a very hot space. So help me understand what you're doing. How are you different?
So we are an all-in-one marketing platform for entrepreneurs, creators. So we don't have only the sales funders. We have the email marketing tool. We have the membership side. We have the affiliate program management. And actually, we use our own tool to power our entire business. And today we do over $400,000 in revenue per month.
Oh, that's incredible. When did you launch the business?
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Chapter 2: How did Aurelian launch systeme.io and what is its unique value proposition?
Okay. So you get going now, how did you get the initial MVP built? Are you a developer?
No, no, I'm not a developer. So I really struggled. Like in 2016, I lost a year and about 30,000 euros. I contracted a company in Morocco owned by a French guy, a customer of my courses. And it was like, oh, we can get this thing built. You know, it's going to cost you seven grand. I was like seven grand, just take it, you know. But I mean, it was a mess. Like they had no idea. It was horrible.
So I fired them after quite a while, actually. We even flew to Morocco with my wife to meet them in person and they were like, yeah, don't worry, it's going to be fine. They were so good at telling me it was going to be fine, but so bad at delivering. And yeah, I fired them. Then I struggled.
I tried many different developers and one day I found a guy on Upwork and I could see that I could rely on this guy. So I was like, do you know someone like you? And he was like, yeah, I work with this guy. He's good as well. So we got him on board. We got a third one on board and we built the product in 2017. I move my business over to our own software.
So first the email list, sending the emails, then all the payment pages, all the pages, and then finally the courses.
So how many engineers are full-time today?
So actually we've just hired our sixth engineer. So, you know, it's not a lot. We've been going with only three developers for a while, but last year we felt that it was time to, you know, add more people to the team. So we've doubled the team in a year.
And how many total are on the team now today?
So we have 60 people. Six zero? Yes, six zero. And you're going to tell me, oh, it's too much. You're not making enough revenue, right? Not necessarily, but what do they do? How many salespeople? So salespeople, actually, we don't have many because we're selling to individuals. So it's a very low touch business.
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Chapter 3: What revenue growth did systeme.io experience during the pandemic?
You haven't listened to every episode. That's like thousands of episodes.
No, no, I've not listened to every episode, but I've listened to a ton of episodes. And, you know, it's funny because I met, you know, Thrive Themes, they do like WordPress plugins. So I met their CEO, Hannah. She lives in Lisbon, just like me in Portugal. And she was like, hey, I'm trying to connect with like some startup builders, like SaaS founders. Do you know any?
And I thought for a while, I was like, no, actually, I don't know any. It's only because I've been listening to podcasts for years. So yours and Mixergy. I know you've been twice on Mixergy, and I listened to the two interviews, so I know my stuff.
How did I do? How would you rate my performance on Mixergy?
No, you did great. The first time I felt that Andrew, which is a great guy, by the way, so nice, I felt that he was a bit aggressive with you because maybe there was some kind of competition. But then in the second interview that was for your book, it was like, oh, a lot more friendlier.
Nobody believed that first interview. Nobody believed that we had 10 million podcast downloads in under a year and a half. And that's what he was pushing me on. And eventually I said, you know what? I'm just going to share my screen and show the downloads. And he was shocked when I showed him. And then it all was good.
No, I believe you because the show is great. I really enjoyed it. I thought that he was like more grilling you about the numbers, the real numbers of your first business that you sold. I was like, hey, you're right. Oh, yeah, you. Heyo, H-E-Y-O. You see, I know my stuff.
Remote teams are all the rage right now. In fact, many companies want to stay this way, even post-pandemic. And the reasoning's obvious. Hiring talent from anywhere in the world means you can bring on better talent. But the challenges are very real. How do you manage employees in other countries legally and easily? What about international payroll, employee benefits?
What are taxes like in countries that are far away from where you're based? You need to understand all of this, including local paperwork and local compliance for all your remote employees. Now, two of the most successful remote companies, both GitLab and Zapier, have reached multi-billion dollar valuations. And they use a special tool, a secret portal, I like to call it, at remote.com.
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Chapter 4: How did Aurelian acquire his first 100 customers for systeme.io?
So there you go. All right. So you're killing it. 8,000 customers. Are you profitable?
Yeah, actually. Uh, yeah, we are like very profitable. I mean, uh, I'm, I'm like my financial goal is to make, uh, a hundred thousand, you know, uh, euros per month. And, um, I'm getting close to that. So yeah, I'm very happy.
So of $400,000 a month in revenue, how much do you take the bottom line as profit?
Yeah, so today it's about, it's between 80 and 100.
And what do you do with that money? Do you just let it sit in a bank account or how do you invest it?
Yeah, it's a good question. So actually we bought our dream house six months ago with my wife. So it was 1.5 million, I mean, 1.4. And we had a down payment, but we still had close to 1 million. So because I think that there is so much cash in the world, you know, like everything is overpriced. You look at, you know, the, the stock market and everything.
So I just, I would prefer like pay off the house in two or three years and invest a little bit between stock market and I don't know. That's smart.
And do you own a hundred percent of the business?
Yeah.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Aurelian face while building the MVP for systeme.io?
Is it just because you pay out so much?
No, it's over time. It's word of mouth. Obviously, the customers, I guess some of them refer around them to earn some affiliate commission. So it's really over time. So in the French market, we have a lot of affiliates promoting us. And in the English market, now we're trying to build this up. And we have some affiliates who have made so far like $3,000, $5,000. So it's
Got it. And that's your biggest expense, really. I mean, $100,000 a month is your biggest expense. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Very cool. So affiliates there, you've moved your CAC basically from being fixed on your balance sheet to basically variable only if affiliate closes a sale for you, which is great. Things are going well. What's next for you? You don't want to sell.
You don't want to raise. What's the next product you're going to launch?
No, grow this thing, you know, like start getting some traction in the English market. Actually, it's happening right now. It's very exciting. We get like we get so many testimonials and people promoting us and noticing we're doing some outreach.
So just keeping this thing, you know, and getting to 10 millions in revenue, then 20 millions, 30 millions and hopefully get back on your show, you know.
You should start using FounderPath so that I can put other companies that are email marketing or funnel builders or affiliate firms or video hosting in front of you, and you can start buying them with your profits and growing faster. How about that?
Could be. I mean, that would be better than buying some stocks, I guess, right?
There you go. I would love that. Well, really, and this is great. Congrats on your growth. Let's wrap up with the famous five. Number one, favorite book.
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Chapter 6: How does Aurelian manage his team and what is the current team size?
Married, single kids?
Married, one four-year-old daughter.
Wow. And how old are you? I'm 41. 41. Last question. What's something you wish you knew when you were 20?
That I'm not going to believe it, you know, like buckle up.
Guys, there you have it. Get going. System.io. They went from 1.5 million in revenue in 2019 to over 4.8 million run rate today. They're doing this all bootstrapped. 8,000 customers are competing with ClickFunnels. Most of their revenue and their growth have come from affiliates. Over 600 affiliates made money last month through the program.
They pay out 100 grand a month right now to their affiliates. They are profitable. Take about 100 grand a month to the bottom line as he reinvests and buying his dream home. Maybe the stocks one day, but having a lot of success. Aurelien owns 100%. My man, thanks for taking us to the top.
Thank you very much, Nathan. It was a pleasure.
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