Why do we have to pay into the new Anti-Weaponization Fund?
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What is the Anti-Weaponization Fund and why was it created?
This is Search Engine. I'm PJ Vogt. No question too big, no question too small, no question too taxing. We were not supposed to have an episode this week, and yet here we are. All because of a big national news story that has been developing. A story that we here at the show have not been able to stop talking about. President Trump's anti-weaponization fund. The origin story of that fund actually begins years ago with an enormous IRS leak, a leak that let the American public see both Trump's tax returns as well as the tax information of hundreds of American billionaires. It was obvious at the time that this was a huge story. We covered it here at Search Engine.
How did Jesse Eisinger become involved in the reporting on tax avoidance?
What was not obvious, though, was where it would lead. Jesse Isinger, a journalist at ProPublica, played a weirdly large role in the chain reaction that's led us to today. So we asked him back to Search Engine Studios to help us understand what's going on here. I kind of want to like return to the story that you told last time we spoke, but I know not everyone will have listened to that episode. Can you just tell me like many years ago, you got an anonymous tip, which led to a big reporting project. Can you just like sort of describe what the tip was and what the reporting project was in brief? Sure.
I was born in a log cabin. One day, I was looking at my phone, and a signal pops up, and a guy wanted to get in touch with me. It was a tip like I get many times a week, and this one turned out to be the greatest tip I've
What were the implications of the IRS leak on Trump's tax returns?
ever had. Eventually, the guy leaked to us the tax information for all of the wealthiest people in America, all the household names that you could imagine. Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, et cetera, et cetera, Elon Musk. And then we gathered a huge team at ProPublica to report on the tax returns. And Paul Keel was my partner in this. And we eventually over years published over 50 stories based on these returns about the tax avoidance strategies of the wealthy. And the big picture is, surprise, surprise, the lay understanding of our tax system is that it's extraordinarily unfair and that people who are extremely wealthy avoid taxes in myriad ways, some of them entirely legal and very simple to do.
How does the Anti-Weaponization Fund operate?
What we did was very powerful because we named names. So we showed that Jeff Bezos had literally paid zero in taxes for two years when he was a billionaire, and Michael Bloomberg paid zero in taxes, and Carl Icahn paid zero. And what we also showed is that they pay, of just trifling sums of taxes compared to their wealth growth. So they avoid income, and by avoiding income, they avoid taxes, and their wealth grows and grows, and then often they borrow against their wealth to fund their lifestyles.
At the time that you were writing your story, you didn't know the identity of the person who was leaking to you, but later he was caught, he was arrested, and so you found out his identity.
Yes. Yeah, he was a contractor for the IRS working for a consulting firm, Booz Allen. He's a guy named Charles Little John, and he had actually leaked the— Trump tax returns to the New York Times and provided them with the information to write their blockbuster story on Trump's tax avoidance strategies.
What controversies surround the distribution of the Anti-Weaponization Fund?
Huge, important public service. And then he realized that the problem of tax avoidance was much bigger than one person and wanted to expose the tax avoidance strategies of Trump. The wealthiest among us, and that's when he came to us. He had seen – Paul and I had done a series of stories. I like to think of it as the least read, most boring investigative series of all time, which was about the gutting of the IRS. Yeah. But one person who was very important actually read that, which was Charles Littlejohn. And he, unbeknownst to us, we didn't know his identity, as you just said, he gave us the tax returns. And then that actually got him caught. If he had just leaked the tax returns of Trump, he wouldn't have gotten caught.
How does the fund affect transparency in government spending?
He would have gotten away with it. Was it just because now he had access to more – it was easier to cross-reference?
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the Anti-Weaponization Fund and why was it created?
0:23–1:11
2
How did Jesse Eisinger become involved in the reporting on tax avoidance?
1:11–2:08
3
What were the implications of the IRS leak on Trump's tax returns?
2:08–3:08
4
How does the Anti-Weaponization Fund operate?
3:08–4:18
5
What controversies surround the distribution of the Anti-Weaponization Fund?
4:18–5:10
6
How does the fund affect transparency in government spending?
5:10–5:54
7
What are the potential consequences of the fund for American democracy?
5:54–6:46
8
What insights does Jesse Eisinger provide on the future of tax policy?
6:46–40:09