So Late In The Day: Dua Lipa & Claire Keegan On Everyday Misogyny
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Service95 Book Club. Today, I'm talking to Claire Keegan about her incredible short story, So Late in the Day. It's not just me who thinks you should read her. George Saunders, another master of the short story, calls Claire one of the greatest fiction writers in the world. Her five books a day add up to around 700 pages in total, and believe me, not a word is wasted. In So Late in the Day, Claire tells the story of everyday misogyny through the relationship of Cahal and Sabine. You won't find any references to the manosphere or toxic masculinity here. Instead, it's a quiet study of how the behaviours we learn in childhood can complicate and ruin our adult relationships, and in the process, limit our human potential.
A quick note before we begin. It's hard to talk about a short story without giving things away, so this conversation will contain spoilers.
For her to come here and court an Irishman and almost marry him was for me an opportunity to show what our misogyny looked like to an outsider.
I've seen so many interviews of Olivia Colman on the red carpet or something and someone goes, what's your favorite swear word? And she goes, and there's something about it that it just feels like the best swear word ever. But when men say it, you can't help but feel attacked by it. It's different.
There was a very small library and I sat there every day and read. And it saved me.
Yeah, books tend to do that.
Hi, Clare. Hello.
How are you doers?
What themes are explored in Claire Keegan's 'So Late In The Day'?
Lovely to meet you.
I'm so well. I'm so delighted to speak to you. I'm such a huge fan. Thank you so much. I first came across your work in 2022 when I spoke at the Booker Prize, and Small Things Like These was on the shortlist. and I read the whole shortlist that year, and I just, I absolutely fell in love with your writing. So I'm... I'm just so happy to talk to you because your books have just left me wanting more all the time, and I'm a little bit of an evangelist, actually, because I've gifted so many of your books to my friends and my family. Oh, thank you. I mean, I can imagine you hear that a lot. Well, I'm very privileged to be well-read now. It's a very lovely gift, I think, and people get very excited when they receive one of your books.
Oh, that's lovely.
Yeah.
That's great. I'm so pleased. Oh, good, good, good.
As well as a writer, you teach creative writing.
I do. I love teaching.
How does Claire Keegan's background influence her writing?
I think teachers are really important. I have a lot to thank some of my teachers for where I am right now who have believed in me very early on. What I loved when I was researching for So Late in the Day is that this actually started in the classroom on one of your whiteboards as an exercise. And I think it's really beautiful and like this exercise in how fiction can be tense without being overly dramatic, I guess. Do you think that's true?
Yes, I think drama is overrated and can be terribly dull. And if you don't believe me, just go off for a long weekend with a dramatic personality, and you'll be sorry that you have Monday off. I think all good fiction is drawn to tension, and that tension and drama don't actually like each other. I think if they were at a party... And tension was there, and so drama coming in, tension would want to leave. Because tension is actually fed by loss. And a central character is somebody who's losing. And when we get tense, we get tense because we are either losing or are afraid of losing something. And that is actually the page-turning quality in writing. It's not drama. And I'm sure you sat down to watch something on Netflix and there was nothing on the new stuff, only fellows chasing each other around with guns and car crashes and helicopters and it was dull as could be.
Drama isn't in itself interesting.
I find that so interesting to hear you analyze it in that way because I think just that idea, yeah, tension. I've never thought about it in that way, but of course, you're so right in the sense that is someone experiencing loss or, you know, on the hopes that they don't lose something, you know, there is this kind of tension.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–1:35
2
What themes are explored in Claire Keegan's 'So Late In The Day'?
1:35–2:29
3
How does Claire Keegan's background influence her writing?
2:29–13:28
4
What role does tension play in effective storytelling?
13:28–31:08
5
What is the significance of the character Cahal in the story?
31:08–39:12
Speakers
4 identifiedMore from Service95 Book Club With Dua Lipa
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