Sky Sports Premier League Podcast
The Football Show – Carragher, Souness, Giggs, Wilder and Merson
14 Apr 2020
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Good morning and welcome to the Football Show. We're here every weekday from 9 through till 11. And our special guests with you this morning, Jamie Carragher and Graeme Souness, who can't wait to get stuck in, of course, from their own homes. And if you weren't with us yesterday, here's a little flavour of what you can expect.
good morning everybody and a happy easter to you and your families i hope that you're safe and well and we have to say it is great to be back with you after what a month away hi y'all i'm pamela pepkin and you're about to do pamela pepkin's quarantine workout yeah how did you get the gary how did you get your gym equipment uh your gym outfit across the wheel
And I'm very pleased to say that the Chelsea manager, Frank Lampard, joins us now. He had five years on me. He had all the looks.
He had all the dress sense. He had all the ability.
It was a proud moment, though, because you were both captain, weren't you? Yeah, no, I didn't want anything bad to happen to him or anything like that. When Frank was talking about me and Phil and he mentioned attitude and preparation, but when he talks about his family, he said, good looks, fashion and ability.
I just looked at him and I went, did they? And I had no idea. Obviously, I was so focused on my own team that I didn't really care what kind of the opposition were in. As long as I could see my own players, I didn't really mind.
Oh, no, there was no conversations. It was get the kits off.
We hope to see you at 9 o'clock. Bye from us all.
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Chapter 2: What was the significance of Ryan Giggs' FA Cup goal against Arsenal?
Yeah, a lot of fun yesterday watching some of those great moments back again. And we've got a lot more of this to come over the coming weeks. As we said, Graham Soonis and Jamie Carragher here with us today. And a very special guest to kick things off on the 14th of April. Because 21 years ago, on this day, we witnessed one of the great...
FA Cup goals in the semi-final at Villapark for Manchester United's semi-final replay when Ryan Giggs tore through the Arsenal team by himself to score a very special goal. I'm delighted to say the Wales head coach is with us this morning. How are you, Ryan? Yeah, morning, Dave. Good, thanks. Morning, Graham. Morning, Karen. Morning, Ryan.
We've been talking to a few Premier League managers, Ryan, about how difficult it's been for them through the lockdown. But what about for an international manager in these situations? Yeah, well, obviously, we were looking forward to preparing for the Euros for this summer, which has now been put back a year. So, listen, it's not the end of the world.
Obviously, we want everyone to get back to normality as well sooner rather than later. But for me, obviously, it's not Probably as problematic as the Premier League managers. I've just got a plan now, a year ahead. And, yeah, look forward to hopefully the games in September when the Nations League starts. Have you any indication of when you might be playing football again?
Then Wales is a country. Well, we're in, Matt, for September. Triple headers, so...
three games rather than the usual two games because obviously there's still games to be played for the playoffs to get to the Euros so I hardly want to hear about that for November so yeah there's been a little bit of a change and obviously something that we're not used to in the window that we have so yeah it's going to be different but yeah just like everyone else we're just waiting really and just hopefully getting back to football when it's safe sooner rather than later.
Well, we've got you on, Ryan, because we want to talk about that incredible goal. 21 years ago to this day, any excuse to have another look at it? And here it is. I mean, you've probably seen it about 300 times or more by now, haven't you? Yeah, actually, when I was playing, I never, ever watched it. But yeah, obviously, since then, I've had kids and yeah, they never really seen me play.
especially obviously at this time. So yeah, it's good to watch back with the kids and see what the old man used to do. But no, I mean, this was a time when obviously ourselves and Arsenal were the two brilliant teams and we were so alike. You know, we had the same sort of football ability, the same fight. We had similar characters, obviously two great managers.
So at that time, you know, the rivalry between ourselves and Arsenal was at its peak. Ryan, just looking back at the goal, that's obviously, you know, you scored a lot of goals, dribbling, going past players, but that's the iconic goal everyone remembers. At what stage when you actually receive that ball do you think I'm actually going for goal?
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Chapter 3: How do Premier League managers cope with lockdown challenges?
We really had to perform on a level, especially after Christmas, every game on that high level. And we did that. It was, Ryan, just talking about, you know, that season, how special it was. I mean, was that almost the moment, your goal, that actually, that belief come, that you could go on and sort of maybe, it wasn't a challenge with Arsenal, you were going to go on and win that treble, really.
It always felt like that semi-final was, it was a huge moment psychologically. Yeah, I think you get it in moments in the season when you actually start to believe. I think the week before we'd played Juventus at Old Trafford, hadn't played really well, but just sneaked a draw. And then the one week after that FA Cup semi-final, we were playing Juventus away where we had that amazing comeback.
So definitely Arsenal, that game, you start to believe everything that went on in that game, you know, sendings off, missed penalties, great goals. Yeah. Yeah, it did give you the belief, even though it didn't get talked about, the treble, it did give you that belief that actually, you know, we're in the final now. That's one sort of put to bed.
Now let's concentrate on the league and the Champions League. Ryan, can I ask you, did Fergie put more of an importance on winning the league than Cups? You know, at Liverpool, when I was a player there, it was all about the priority was the Premier League. They felt that said more about you as a team. Or the first division as it was then.
Yeah, but I think Sir Alex thought he could win every game, no matter what team he put out. I think depending on if we were trying to win the league back, then like when Aguero scored that late goal the next season, he wanted to win that league without a shadow of a doubt. But I think that season, I talked about the strength in depth.
Every team that he put out, he felt that he could win that game, whether it be in the Champions League, the FA Cup. So I don't think that season he really prioritised. Listen, he wanted to win that Champions League because that was the next one, you know, winning it in Europe.
But around that time, he was juggling it a little bit where... But because of the strength and depth we had, never really weakened the side. They would say to us, you know, on a Saturday, because the big games... would take care of themselves. But they would say to us on a Saturday, now look, you're playing a team that's near the bottom, maybe in the bottom two, bottom three.
It's their cup final. This is a fixture they looked at when they came out in August or whenever they came out. It's their cup final. If you don't match them forever, you can come and stuck against anyone. Was that the attitude you had for those guys? You're playing Juventus. You're playing Juventus. There's no motivation needed, is there? It's that technical.
As a player, that takes care of itself. The league games? No. Lesser teams? Yeah, when you get to the business end of the season, everyone's fighting for something, whether they're trying to get into Europe, whether they're trying to stay up. And you're right. Every team that come to Old Trafford wanted to do something, wanted to make it difficult for you. So, yeah, you're right.
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Chapter 4: What insights did Ryan Giggs share about his management style?
And, of course, like you, it was a team that I loved, loved playing for, and felt that every year there was a challenge. Ryan, can I tell you a little tale? When I was manager at Liverpool, United had played Liverpool. The kids had played each other. And on the Monday, Tomo, who was at the game, I was asking him how the kids had got on. And he said, oh, United have got a very special player.
And he described this young forward, young winger. And I said, is he as good as Macker? Meaning Steve McManaman. And he said, he's better than Macker. And at that, he just walked away. So we knew about you early on. Was it Lee Sharp?
Brilliant. No, that was Gary Neville.
That was Gary Neville.
Neville didn't get over the halfway line in them days.
He said his technique was great.
No, one of my first games, Salford Boys, actually, against Blackburn, it was at Anfield. And it was the, I don't know if you ever played in it, Jamie, it was the Granada sort of trophy.
so that was one of the first times because Ron Yates was the chief scout and I spoke to him afterwards so I was only young I'd just signed for United so obviously there was no chance of me going to Liverpool but yeah I remember Tomo when he was reserve team manager we played against him a couple of times and yeah I think I've still got the bruises to show from it but no I think you know when you're a young player coming up yeah you want to get into that first team and you
You want to stay in that first team. So, yeah, it was good days back then when we were younger. Ryan, before we let you go, just clarify for us what we were talking about right at the start, about this international calendar, because we're all trying to work out exactly what might happen at what stage, if and when next season gets underway.
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Chapter 5: How did Chris Wilder describe his experience in the Premier League?
It's licensed to get forward a little bit more and arrive late and get in the box. And as he started his career as a centre forward, that's a natural talent that he's got. Can I ask something on a more general... A more general question. We did Super Sunday when you played Man Utd, and I thought that day you were fantastic. It's a great game of football.
You go in front of United, you get back, look like they're going to win it, and then you never say die attitude. Kicked in. But the modern way, as everyone talks about, the correct way of playing football, they're inclined to overdo it with the passes in their own half before they get it forward. I think you've got that mix just right. You know, you don't do that. You get it forward.
You will play at the back, but you get it forward. You get people in a race. You get your team up the pit. It's an exciting watch. Just effective, which is trying to be an effective team. I've got to say, when we played Liverpool at their place, they were, on the night, an unbelievably effective team. I just think there's two or three different ways to play and win a game of football.
You go long, you go round or go through, and you've always got to try and find a way. And we've tried to win games of football, even though our goals for records are not brilliant. Defensively, we've got a structure... and hard to beat. We'd like to have a little bit more possession in games.
Obviously, if you have that, that allows you more of the ball and an opportunity of dictating the game a little bit more. But I think the biggest thing is that we're effective or try to be as much as possible against the teams and the opposition, the quality opposition that we're undoubtedly up against in this brilliant league that we're involved in.
Chris, the season that you've had, it gives you an opportunity to possibly play European football next season. Now, a big question mark against teams that get promoted who have a great, say, first season is how they'll react in the second season. But the situation that we're in, and if football is played in maybe June or July, it'll almost feel like another season.
Is that almost like a worry for you and maybe other managers as well? It's not almost... part of the same season, I think it could be completely different for you when the players come back.
We've just got to deal with it, you know, I think first and foremost for the morale of the country, getting football back out there and whether it's behind closed doors or hopefully in the near future we're playing in front of crowds, but you just have to deal with it. It's an unprecedented situation and scenario that's...
I think, you know, I've been told going back to 60, 61, 62, where there was a terrible winter where a lot of the games were postponed. Obviously, now that's not the case. This is a completely different scenario. But we'll deal with whatever's in front of us. We're not scared in terms of handling the fixture list if we do manage to gain one of those European spots.
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Chapter 6: What are Paul Merson's thoughts on the impact of recent events in football?
He had a disappointing season from the players' point of view in League One. I think they finished up 12th or 13th. And that really from a club of Sheffield United's size was certainly not good enough. I think he won everything in that year. Graham, player of the year, players player of the year, leading goal scorer. And I saw an interview with him and he was devastated.
And, you know, he took all personal accolades out of it. It was about his season and what the season that the club had had. And it wasn't a successful one. So I know how much he cared about the football club. He knew how much he cared about being successful and getting this club off the canvas and moving forward.
And Billy's one of a number of brilliant senior pros that I've got that most certainly, as you've said, help run the change room and look after it. This is really interesting, Chris. I want to develop this conversation around the art of management. If you wouldn't mind just staying with us for a couple of minutes while we take a break and we'll come back. Is that OK? No problem. Yeah, no bother.
Perfect. Okay, we'll see you on the other side of this break and we'll have more from Chris Wilder. Remember, get your questions in as well. Hashtag Sky Football Show on Twitter. I'll put some of those to Chris potentially too. Do stay with us. Good morning. You're watching The Football Show. Sometimes the conversation carries on into the break, even when we're in separate homes.
So we've had a little bit of fun there with Mr. Carrigan and Mr. Wilder. We were just exploring the issue of, well, the art of management, Chris, when we had to take a break. Graham was talking the other day about the fact that he felt... you know, he was very honest.
He said he felt that he fell down towards the back end of his managerial career because of the way he was too much on the front foot with players, perhaps a little bit too aggressive. How have you found that with the modern day player I'm talking about? How gentle do you have to be with modern footballers? Yeah, pick your times, but this is a really tough industry and a tough environment. And
And the strong survive and they have to deal with going into backyards of 40, 50, 60,000 people all after them. And then if they want to improve their career and move the career on to international level or European football, talking about going and playing in these European countries where they're all after you.
I mean, I went to watch Fenerbahce versus Galatasaray, all the best for any of the boys that are a little bit soft out there, trying to deal with that game. So, you know, it's a tough, and I think Mr. Souness once stuck a flag in the center circle there a few years ago. So that was an experience. So, yeah, it's a tough environment. It's our changing room, but I'm the biggest supporter of them.
I'm the one that signed them. I'm the one that brings them into the football club and wants them to improve and take the club forward. But when there's a time or a thing that needs to be said, it's said. And I think like what Graham said as well, eight times out of ten, it's already been said before I've got in the changing room by the other players.
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Chapter 7: What criteria did pundits use to select their toughest opponents?
And I know I'm going to sit down and talk about something I love, absolutely love. And that's not there at the moment. And when that's not there, you've got to fill a void and something that's missing. And that's hard for someone... who's, I'm 52 now, left to score 16. So that's a big void. And I'm just getting used to doing stuff, just doing stuff.
I mean, I've just learned really how to do this on the phone and on the iPad and things like that. So I'm learning stuff as we go along now. But it has been hard, I'm not going to lie. There's been really, really bad days, really deep days. Well, so how do you fill that void then, Paul? Because you've got to put things in place.
And I guess a lot of people will be feeling exactly the same as you are watching out there. What mechanisms do you put in place to get through on a daily basis? Well, I have friends that I talk to in recovery that I have to pick the phone up and talk to and just tell them how I'm feeling and make sure I do that.
When I see the phone ring and I don't pick it up, then I know I'm struggling badly and I need to pick the phone up. I'm very fortunate I've got a garden. I'm very fortunate. I mean, things like that you take for granted in life, but it's such a massive thing when you've got a two-year-old and a five-year-old and we can go outside in the garden and...
And things like that make you very grateful, very grateful. And, you know, I just feel for the people that haven't got that. And it's all right for everybody sitting at home saying to people who haven't got, you know, living in apartments and big flats, you say, oh, they've got to stay and you've got to stay. It's hard.
You've got kids and you're sitting in an apartment or a flat and you're not allowed to go out and you've got kids. I mean, that's where I really feel I'm really, really fortunate and lucky. I know I have my... my demons. And I know I have bad days, but you know, I've got to be appreciative at the same time. And I go out and play a million games of football with Freddie every day.
Uh, and my left foot's getting better and better. And you know, I'm even tackling like Brad. Paul, you're talking about how, how, how tough it's been, uh, you know, without the football now and dealing with different things.
How big an impact do you think football can play to sort of, when it comes back and the lift it'll give, you know, you're talking about yourself individually, but, you know, people up and down this country, is that something to look forward to when we get through all this? Oh, I think massively. Football's a massive part of a lot of people's lives.
The people involved in football, in the same with rugby league and rugby union and cricket, you know, it takes people's mind off life. It gives you something to look forward to. You know, if you're not doing too good or you have problems at home or whatever that problem, or even at work, What gets you through it is that feeling of, I've got Saturday. And you've only got to look.
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Chapter 8: How do Jamie Carragher and Graeme Souness compare their football experiences?
I must have missed that. Is it a red card? Chris, have you not been watching?
I haven't. I don't know where that's come from, Chris. I have no idea what has happened there. What's happened, Chris?
I don't know. The rain must have got in my eyes, Geoff.
Chris, Chris, let me tell you, according to our sources, Anthony van den Boer has been sent off for a second bookable offence. Get your fingers out and count up the number of Portsmouth players who are on the field.
No, you're right. I saw him go off and I thought they were bringing a sub on, Geoff.
LAUGHTER
How good is that, Wes? It's very good. I mean, they've got a lot of time on their hands, them two lads, haven't they? If I'm being honest. I mean, I'll tell them I'll send Freddie and Sienna around if they want to stay busy. I'm sure they're keeping you on your toes, those two. But listen, I've just had a message from one of our producers as well while I've been chatting with you, Paul.
You're very welcome. We're going to have lots of these football shows. We will be talking football quite a lot over the coming weeks and we'd love to have you on a lot more. So don't worry about that. Thank you. I'd love to be on. Thank you. Good man. Good man. Great to talk to you this morning. Look after yourself. Bye-bye. Stay safe.
Bye-bye.
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