Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
89, the film is now available on demand on Sky. It, of course, charts the extraordinary final day twist when Arsenal picked Liverpool to the title by just one goal on goal difference. It was an extraordinary night and also the film charts that particular evening, the twists leading up to it and, of course... The final plot itself. Incredible stuff.
Chapter 2: What was the significance of the final day twist in Arsenal '89?
I'm delighted to say that we are joined by three men who are very much at the heart of Arsenal's season. And we're all there on that night. Alan Smith, Lee Dixon and Paul Merson. Lee, if I start with you, over 30 years ago, can you believe it?
No, don't. That really scares me. And the fact that that anniversary came round last,
uh really quickly after the 20 years just shows how time flies when you've really enjoyed yourself um but yeah it's good it's flown by and um it was only i think it was only right that at some point something was um put down to mark that occasion um we had a few chats uh amy lawrence gave me a call right out the blue and said Do you fancy being involved in a documentary about 89?
And she didn't even have to go on from that moment. As soon as she said that, I said, yeah, I'm in. I have no idea what you want me to do, but I'll help in any way I can. And so that was the start of it. That was the first seed. Amy Lawrence, if you don't know, is probably the biggest –
arsenal fan out there um a journalist but really impartial brilliant writer a brilliant journalist and um the fact that she wanted to be involved in it uh being so arsenal through and through absolutely tipped me over the edge and i said yeah just let me know and kind of from that moment on it became a labor of love i absolutely threw myself into the project um i couldn't do enough for her and the director david stewart
and the ideas that were coming out from that side of things. I was kind of just the go-between between them and getting in contact with obviously the players because without them we don't have a documentary.
Smudge, were you very much of the same opinion as soon as you heard about the project? It was a no-brainer. maybe from you or anybody, was there a hesitation? It was such an incredible night. It's never happened before or since that there was part of you that wanted to leave it in the memory bank. Was there any hesitation at all?
No, none at all. I mean, it's the greatest story that had never been told, really, up until that point. And... Lee mentioned Dave Stewart. I met him in a restaurant not far from my house. Those were the days when you used to be able to go to restaurants. And he talked through it. And I mean, I was sold. Yeah.
And, you know, when you start talking about it again, you remember things that you thought you'd forgotten. And then you see the boys and they come up with their little memories and then it triggers something in your mind. But it was special to all of us, Jeff. You know, Merson Lee, I'm sure you'll agree with that. It was something that could never be repeated.
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Chapter 3: How did the idea for the documentary about Arsenal '89 come about?
So we're all delighted that it came out so brilliantly well, that it really did capture the drama of the night and the season as a whole, really.
Do you think it captures, just thinking about what's smudged there, it almost seems an age of innocence. It seems a lifetime ago. It's very much the same game. All four of us work in football now, but it just seems a completely different era, doesn't it?
Yeah, I mean, as Lee said, it flew by. I was so pleased when Lee rang up and said, we're going to do this, need a couple of interviews from you. Because I think the game got brushed under the mat a bit, if I'm being honest. I think it wasn't appreciated as much as what it should have been. I thought, really, the club should have done something virtually all the time, if I'm being honest.
Because it was such a massive thing to beat probably the best team about at the time. But I mean, you watch the game. I mean, I wasn't a tackler. You know, I wasn't one of them lads and all was smudged.
But some of the tackles that were flying in, I mean, you'd be lucky if there was like 10 players left on the pitch nowadays. So, yeah, I was trying to do Lee a favour there. But, yeah.
But it was. It was a massive thing. It will never be done again. People say about the Aguero situation, it doesn't even add up to it. You know, two of the top teams, last game of the season, first v second. You've only got to look at the league fixtures that come out every year now. It will never be done again.
You're never going to see Liverpool playing Man City on the last day of the season or Man United playing Chelsea. You're just not going to get them games on the last day of the season. So for me, it will never be done again.
So, Lee and Smudge, for your money, are you alongside Merce that it's the greatest final day twist ever, bar none?
Yeah, I don't, you know, I'm a City fan as a kid. Grew up watching him. No victories to talk of in my lifetime when I was watching him as a supporter and then The Aguero moment, I remember I was sitting in a hotel, I'd just been on a ride with Delalio doing the Delalio slam and the game was on and me and Graham and so were sitting in in the foyer watching it on TV.
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Chapter 4: What were the initial reactions of the players to the documentary project?
Can you claim that one, Dicko? Do you remember saying that?
No, but it's a great line, so I am claiming it. It's the kind of thing you might have said, Lee.
I mean, you went on to play, you went on to win the double, didn't you, under Wenger in 98? And I think you've said since that, you know, still until 89 is tops. Smart.
I think he says it every trophy he wins. Merce, what was it like getting back together with the old teammates? Because then, Lee and Amy Lawrence were the driving force of the film. But when you get back together, and of course, it's only natural in any workplace. There are some people you always stay in touch with, but others, every now and again, you haven't seen them for a long time.
So what was that like, a reunion on that scale?
It was great. I mean, I was in my drinking then, so it was a bit mad. I mean, I'd love meeting up, you know, so it was meeting in bars and things like that. But it was great. I mean, I love meeting up with the lads. We don't meet up with each other too often. We have a WhatsApp group. But, yeah, I mean... We had a camaraderie. I mean, it was such a togetherness, that team.
You know, everybody would be the first to admit we weren't all the same. No, we're far from all the same. You know, we didn't all go out with our wives and everybody, you know. But when we got on that pitch together, everybody looked after everybody. Everybody worked as hard as they could for everybody. And, you know, again, you know, I think Lee and Amy have to take a massive lot of credit.
I mean, they've done all the work. We just turned up. They got us to come and do the interviews. And I'm very grateful for it because we've got memories now. You know, the film's come out, 89. We've always got that to show the kids and the grandchildren. You know, so I'm very grateful. I'd like to thank Lee for that.
I'd like to thank Lee for that because, you know, there's a lot of hard work that goes into things behind the scenes. Everybody just thinks you just turn up. But to get players to come at the right time, you know, and get them there and do the interviews was special. So I'm very grateful. Yeah, I'd like to thank you.
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Chapter 5: How did the documentary capture the essence of the 1989 season?
We've built up this kind of film to a certain extent. We had all this stuff. The cutting room floor was starting to fill up with bits that we chopped away. And then the director kept...
director kept saying to me right we need to get uh mickey on board now and the universal pitchers said have you got mickey yet and we kept going um next week yeah we're doing him next week and then it was just in the end i had to get people to phone him up and then in In the end, he came good. And he absolutely... Mickey's a little bit shy. He's not that great in public.
He likes to keep himself to himself. But he absolutely... Afterwards, Merce, I think you'll agree, when talking to him at the premiere, he kind of fell in love with the whole process and then he realised that it was his film as much as anyone else's and that if he hadn't been involved in it, he'd have been really upset. And I think he really... You couldn't shut him up at the premiere.
He was like, you know, he's like a... He's like a voice on a stick. He's just talking to everybody.
Go on, Smudge, what were you going to say?
I was going to talk about the Premier, actually, because you can never get everybody back together, can you? But we got a really good portion of people, and it was great to see the gaffer there and Theo Foley as well. A lot of us haven't seen Theo for a long time, so it was great to catch up with him.
And a few of the backroom staff from the club, because we were a tight-knit unit as a club, weren't we? It was a massive club, Arsenal, but it was a small club as well in many ways in that we all knew the people at the ticket office and Paddy Galligan and these kind of people all around the club. all around the ground. So it was wonderful. And I, you know, endorse what Merce says.
For Lee to put it all together like that was fantastic. It really made it. And, you know, the end product speaks volumes for the effort he put into it.
Merce, how much when you were watching the premiere together, Did you hammer each other the things that were happening in the game, as any group of lads would?
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Chapter 6: What memories did the players share during the making of the documentary?
Well, he's probably got me 30 times in the games I've played against Liverpool or wherever he's been playing. So, Kenny used to sort of sit on the dug, lean on the dugout with his foot because the dugouts were dropped down. So, he used to put his foot on the edge and sort of sit like that watching the game, sort of in the front of the dugout.
And the ball, nine times out of ten, he went out for a throw-in near him. And it would go to him and he'd end up with the ball in his hands. And I'd always walk over and I'd go, give us a ball back. And he'd go and he'd throw it. And then there's a little edge on the pitch where it drops down. And there's this little wooden edge that goes around the pitch at Anfield. And he'd throw it.
So it bounced off the wood and bounced back to him or bounced away from me. And every time I'd just go like that to get it. And it bounced away. And he would just absolutely crack himself up. He was the only person who'd seen it, me and him. And he'd crack up every time. So the next time it went there, I'd go, because you're in the game. I'd go, yeah, give us a ball, Kenny.
And he'd just go like that and he'd do it again. And there I'm stood there with my hands out again. And then, so he used to get me every time. I think I had the last laugh on May the 26th, 1989.
Smudge, I think the ISO camera, they captured very well Boldy. He had a very good heavy chance very early on, didn't he? His reaction was there for all to see, wasn't it? Lip readers weren't required.
Not like Boldy to swear at all, really. He didn't score many goals. I mean... You just wonder, though, don't you, if he had a score in that first half, you know, the dynamics of the match change. Maybe we get nervous. We've scored too early. It wakes Liverpool up. You just don't know what would have happened after that. But, yeah, I do remember it.
It was our only chance, I think, in that first half. Nicky ran down the right channel and clipped one to the far post and Boldy kind of unmarked. He's got a good header on it. And Steve Nicol, backtracking it, has headed it away on the line. And obviously, Boldy was a little bit annoyed, thinking this is going to be a game of few chances. Have I just cost us here?
And Merce said, you know, half-time when the gaffers said, this is brilliant, lads, just there we wanted it. And Merce is going, well, we've hardly had a touch of the ball. We've hardly created a chance. What are you talking about? But Boldy's chance was the one and only. Yeah.
I mean, Mercer, Lee and Smarch were involved in the winning goal. What are your memories of the winning goal unfolding?
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Chapter 7: How did the players feel about revisiting their past experiences in football?
It's one of them moments, if you're old enough, everybody knows where they were that night. You know, it was football. It was a Friday night game. It was live. Football were not that often. Everybody remembers where they were that night when that football match was on.
I remember meeting up with England on the Monday, I think maybe. I'm feeling a little bit worse for wear. England had played Scotland that weekend and then we met up and all the lads were congratulating us. Mickey Thomas was with us in the squad, I think. I remember Terry Butcher coming up and saying, well done, lad. Brilliant.
He was in his bedroom watching it and he said, when Mickey scored, I've jumped up and I've smashed the light shade and nearly come through the floor. He said, because we were the underdogs. Everyone was fed up of Liverpool winning things the way they would get to be fed up of Man United winning things after that.
So we were the underdogs that everybody wanted to see, you know, victorious on the night. And as you say, Merce, it was like that JFK moment. No matter who you support, everybody remembers it. Even if you don't like football, you'll probably remember where you were because somebody's told you about it. Oh, Arsenal have just won the league in the last seconds. It was that kind of night.
Jeff, how much? Go on, Lee. I spoke to Mickey last week. We were doing something together and I was talking to him about the goal. And I said, you know, the most extraordinary thing, and even making the documentary kind of slipped my mind a little bit. But when the goal goes in, the most extraordinary thing, and it'd be interesting to Smudge and Merce what they think about it.
It's like, it's the last kick of the game virtually. We've just won the league or we're about to win the league. And the ball goes in the back of the net and the camera goes to the quick celebration. And it is quick because all the players, all the Arsenal players, including myself, all sprint back to the halfway line. It's bizarre. It's like we've got to get back to kick off again.
It's almost like we've forgotten. We think we need another one. And when I watch it again, I go, why are we sprinting back to the halfway line? Why aren't we taking like at least two minutes to sort of celebrate, waste a bit of time? I think that just shows how wrapped up in the moment we were, how young we were as a team, really inexperienced.
No one really, I mean, if I'd have been like that at the end of my career, I'd have been slowing everybody down. I'd have been going, let's walk back. You know, he's not going to have that much time. And we all sprint back to the halfway line. It's bizarre.
Do you remember it that way, Merce?
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