Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Navy eventually realized they'd spent half the night shelling phantom radar echoes and gave the whole debacle a name worthy of this absurdity. The Battle of the Pips.
Oh, no.
Yeah, not to be confused with Gladys Knight and the Pips.
No, never.
Who are Atlanta, Georgia icons.
And delightful.
Oh.
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Chapter 2: How did Operation Cottage unfold during WWII?
I'm really flattered. Thank you.
Oh, amen. We met a few years back. And I have to say, as soon as I met you, I was like, oh, this is a friend. Like, I've met a friend.
That's what I said when I called my husband. I said, you know who I spend a lot of time with today? Ed Helms. And he's like, Ed Helms? Like, from the office, from the hangover, Ed Helms? I'm like, yeah. And I said, I got to tell you, like, I have a feeling I'm going to know him for a long time.
Oh, that's very sweet.
I don't know what note we started on, but there was something about the very first conversation we had that was much deeper and better than most first first interactions.
Amen. Yeah. You're like you called your husband and you're like, he's way less annoying than Andy Bernard.
He didn't sing for me.
He's actually he's kind of normal.
Yeah.
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Chapter 3: What challenges did the soldiers face during the landing?
And she has a great book called How Emotions Are Made. And that's what we were talking about. And the line she said was the best thing for a human central nervous system is another human central nervous system. And the worst thing for a human central nervous system is another human central nervous system. Damn it. So pick your human central nervous systems wisely.
Right.
And that's the feeling that you get. I mean, that's what happened when we first met, really, is my central nervous system and your central nervous system kind of rubbed up against each other. And it was like, oh, this is a good.
Yeah. But that's a lot of pressure when you're like on the life partner choices. That's like, oh, geez, I better get this right.
Well, I mean, this other guest said that we're an average of the five people we spend the most time with. And so that's sort of a related thought. And then this other guest said that listening is so close to love that most people can't tell the difference. Wow. And so if you kind of glue those all together, you get some clarity about like who you're looking for out there.
And you're looking for people who can be still, who can listen, who can take it in. And that's the central nervous system that's going to work for you. And that's the central nervous system that's going to make you better.
I love that because I've always felt that profound insights are things that we hear that were like these aha moments. They feel like aha moments, right? They feel like things that like, oh, my God, what a revelation. I now understand that better. But you're really just ā it's actually just affirming something that you already felt.
The only reason it's an aha moment is because you know that it's true the second you hear it because it resonates with something already in you. And I just ā I love that because it speaks to this kind of like grand human intuition that we all share and that we all understand these fundamental truths.
Yes, and that intuition is being developed and honed by knowledge. Don't you feel from podcasting that you're just full of so much more information to draw from? Like, I feel like my inputs in the last five years have gone through the roof.
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Chapter 4: What mistakes were made during the Battle of the Pips?
I'm wondering how this got matched to me.
Especially one this gloriously botched, but I actually think you're perfect for it. Because your superpower is bringing empathy and curiosity to human folly and finding sort of the human through line when things go sideways. And let's just say this story is going to give you a lot to work with.
Okay.
So we begin in 1942 when the British Army pitched General Eisenhower on a bold idea, a joint American-Canadian commando unit trained in the specialized skills needed to fight in extreme cold. Why? Because they wanted to hit some strategic targets in Nazi-occupied Norway. And as we all know, Norway is quite chilly.
I just want to point out how nice it is to sort of remember America and Canada teaming up together and being just sort of like rowdy neighbors getting in trouble. Yeah. And by the way, it's worth pointing out that Canada does not get enough credit for its role in World War II. They were a powerhouse, like cranking out weapons and gear and supplies and munitions for the Allied forces.
So way to go, Canada. We love you up there. So Eisenhower was very into this idea, and he tapped Lieutenant Colonel Robert T. Frederick to train and lead what became ā named the First Special Service Force. Frederick handpicked lumberjacks, miners, hunters, anyone who could survive the rigorous training in a Montana winter and still smile about it.
They trained in freezing temperatures, climbed cliffs at night, and learned to ski with 50-pound packs. These guys were basically human Sasquatches trained in warfighting.
I haven't thought about Sasquatch in some time. That's fantastic.
You're a Montana gal, right? You spend a lot of time there.
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Chapter 5: How did the fog of war impact decision-making in this operation?
And people still wanted to like meet up. Oh, that's not going to happen for me. Like, I'm not opening the front door. That's hardy. Bleeding out on the street in front of me. Like, I'm so sorry through the window.
And if you inhale too quickly, like you get a lung infection from frozen. Indeed.
So, no, I am not hardy at all.
All right. So this special unit is training in Montana and the Norway plan collapses. Turns out it was a logistical nightmare and allied priorities were shifting fast. So what was this badass new outfit to do? Well, fate would take them to another frosty theater of war, the Aleutian Islands. Do you know anything about the Aleutian Islands? I do not.
The Aleutians are that long sort of ragged tail of islands that stretch nearly a thousand miles between Alaska and Russia. It's that little the beard of the sort of face that is Alaska. It's kind of what separates the Pacific Ocean from the Bering Sea. And they're home to the Aleut people who've lived there for millennia, fishing, hunting, those brutal waters places.
since long before the emergence of nation states and world wars, of course.
Do we know how many Aleut people there are or were?
The current population of the Aleut people is estimated to be around 15,000 across the United States and Russia, with the majority living in Alaska. So they obviously live there and carve out a living. But for outsiders, these islands are a very punishing place. Jagged volcanic rocks surrounded by frigid ocean, broken up by vast stretches of soggy tundra called muskeg.
which is basically nature's kind of like frozen wet sponge. Add in relentless rain near constant fog and temperatures that hover just above freezing, and you've got one of the most brutal landscapes the U.S. has to offer. It's beautiful, but absolutely out to get you.
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Chapter 6: What were the consequences of the Kiska invasion?
Yeah. You're on. Colonel Frederick and the first special service force actually missed the first ā World War II battle in the Aleutians, which was the Battle of Attu, another island. And that had been a very rough one.
There were less than 3,000 Japanese troops on the island of Attu, but it took American troops three weeks to fight through the muddy bogs and capture the Japanese defenses up on the mossy ridges. And when it was all said and done, the US lost 549 soldiers with total casualties approaching 4,000. This is a lot of people and action going on in a very remote place.
And I think that's also part of what sort of contributes to its being more lost to our cultural memory.
Do you ever feel like it's just the most insane way to solve a problem? I mean, it's just so insane. Whenever you get like a 30,000-foot view of war, we've all acclimated to the idea of it, obviously, as we should, since it's always been here and may always be with us. But every now and then, if I come to it fresh again, I'm like, wait a minute. So these countries have a problem.
And the only way they can figure out how to solve it is to take their 18 year olds and put them against our 18 year olds and see who kills the most. That's insane. That's so depressing.
It is. It is. And it often feels like one side sort of forces the hand of the other side because it becomes like an existential threat for one party. I also find it fascinating the kind of ā obviously World War II was so literally a world war. And this is such a great example of something so far from the European theater. We're way up in Alaska in ā
in what feels like the most remote place ever, but the Japanese saw serious strategic possibilities in putting little bases on this archipelago. And the Americans were just like, no, we have to stomp this out.
My God, the Aleuts must have been like, really? Like, no one has ever come here. We have had this strip of land for thousands of years, and now you're just going to destroy it all.
Yeah. And a number of the indigenous population were captured by Japanese as Americans and killed, of course. They were very much sort of caught in the crossfire, unfortunately.
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Chapter 7: What lessons can be learned from this historical snafu?
I mean, some of them were brought back to Japan as prisoners of war. And I would imagine they're just like, what? What do I have to do with this?
Right. Sure. Minding my own business, getting some oil from this whale. And now it's wild. Yeah.
So that was the Battle of Attu on the next dilution island called Kiska. The radio signals, campfires and bunkers detected by U.S. reconnaissance indicated as many as 10,000 Japanese troops stationed there to guard their airfield and submarine base. The U.S. leaders had learned a very hard lesson taking Atu. So for Kiska, they knew they needed a new approach.
This time, it was going to be a massive operation. Over 30,000 troops, 100 warships, and 100 aircraft converging on a single fog-shrouded island. And at the tip of the spear, of course, was Colonel Robert Frederick's crew, now proudly known as Freddy's Fighters. And now for some reason, this entire operation was named Operation Cottage. I don't know why. How do they come up with these things?
I don't know.
Operation Cottage kicked off with two solid weeks of bombing the ever-loving dingus out of this island. American and Canadian pilots dove through the fog at dangerously low altitudes and pounded Kiska with bombs. Next was the ground assault.
Colonel Frederick's elite commandos were to slip ashore under cover of darkness, secure the beaches and clear the way for the throngs of infantry waiting just offshore. It takes a little... A little something special to be these like tip of the spear commandos, right?
Unbelievable. God bless them.
Yeah.
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Chapter 8: How does this story relate to broader themes of human nature?
Right.
You're doing the thing. I just I think that's so incredible. And it's so funny to me when I think back on my younger self as like a 16, 17 year old. I literally thought. And I was like, I think I could be a Navy SEAL. Like this, I was on, I was a varsity swimmer. I was captain of my swim team. I loved being in the water. I was like, I was incredibly physical.
And I was just like, I think I could be a Navy SEAL. And meanwhile, my co-captain on my high school swim team went to the Naval Academy, became a Navy SEAL. And the more I learned about it, I just was like... I'm like, no way could I have done that at all.
I just, in the last year, had dinner with a Navy SEAL who had retired after 30 years and was trying to acclimate.
30 years. Wow.
Regular old, boring civilian life.
Right.
And my two observations were, one, he drank a lot and he drank fast. And two, that he... He had to summarize things in such a way that it was clear that there were whole years of his life that he would never be able to talk to another civilian about. And that maybe they're so close is that they're doing and seeing things that only other Navy SEALs can. see and do.
Of course.
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